Anti-lockdown campaigners using children to push their agenda

[noblegiraffe]

I can't be the only one disgusted with how certain groups are using faux concern about children to push the earliest dismantling of lockdown restrictions.

They are loudly catastrophising on the front pages of the press about our kids. The lost generation. £40,000 in lost earnings. Articles about schools full of traumatised kids suffering PTSD caused by lockdown.

And the solution they propose is always to re-open schools as early as possible. Even before March 8th. Regardless of covid.

Now, the situation in schools before Christmas was awful. Some areas of the country had less than 50% attendance due to the new variant ripping through secondary schools. Secondary school kids were the most infected subset of the population by far, and are now the second least infected subset of the population behind the 70+ age group after schools were closed, demonstrating that there was a massive problem with transmission in secondary schools. It wasn't good for pupils' mental health or education to be in a situation when they didn't know if they'd be in school or out at the drop of a hat. But before Christmas, there was complete media silence on the impact that this was having on children.

CAMHS has been devastated by cuts. Waiting lists are intolerable and children in dire need of support don't even qualify. Same for social care around vulnerable children.

Yet you won't hear these people clamouring for schools re-opening as soon as possible talking at all about how to improve safety measures in schools to prevent the scenario we had before Christmas happening again. You won't hear them demanding more funding for children's mental health services and for more support for social care services.

And the reason you won't hear that is that THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

The reason that they want schools re-opened as quickly as possible is because the message was that schools had to open first.

They can't get what they really want open (everything else) until schools are open, hence the massive focus on schools and how terrible things are for children.

This catastrophising isn't good for parents or kids. It's scaremongering and unhelpful.

I know that there are kids (and parents) really struggling with their mental health and worried about their education. Blaring out messages about how terrible things are and how they will never recover because you want to hype up the message about schools going back is irresponsible and sickening.

We need sensible and calm conversations about how to support children and parents. We need funding for schools and massive investment in support services. We need a long-term program of recovery, not 9 months of a Catch-Up Tsar and quick fixes. We need a measured and sensible approach to schools re-opening that won't see kids in and out and in and out due to lack of mitigation measures causing rampant covid spread (particularly with the new variant).

We need these anti-lockdown campaigners to shut up and stop dominating the narrative.

Surely that’s a much less Covid secure environment?

Yes but don't kid yourself that schools were covid secure. My child has isolated 4 times since Sept while attending nursery.

Nurseries are open for private childcare to keep that part of the economy going. They couldn't keep private nursery open and state/school ones shut, so they're all open. It's a numbers game too.

@Wherediditgo. Nurseries are open because they are mostly not state-funded, not because they are safer (although they do cater for much smaller numbers of children so there is less transmission).

The lack of state funding has two consequences:
i) Nurseries have to refund parents if they close. Many can't afford to do that so they will go out of business if forced to close.
ii) There is no obligation on nurseries to stay open for key worker children if it is not economical. So if you shut nurseries, you risk key worker parents being unable to access childcare if their nursery decides it is too expensive to stay open for a small number of children.

@echt. No but the government is requiring them to homeschool so the government should pay them.

Of course all the people who normally home school get paid by the government....

You aren't resourcing the home school yourself either.

The main finding in the Second World War, in research at war nurseries during the blitz was that children did much better than expected and managed the bombs falling quite well, as long as their parents were doing ok. The biggest problem for children in the war was when they were separated from their parents eg when they were sent away out of London, or parents died

Give me strength. My step-grandad was a child in the war. If you ask him what he remembers he says "being very cold, very hungry and very scared, for years." Yes, he "managed the bombs falling quite well" and he managed not really knowing his dad until he was 10, and he was fine because his parents didn't die, but he would roll his eyes at the idea that the war didn't have a massive impact on him.
When children have no choice, yes, they can be remarkably stoic. Hell, children in the middle of wars can appear just fine, but that doesn't mean that the lasting effects are not real, or that, given the choice adults should not put children first, every time.
Christ of I hear one more person mention the fucking blitz..

MessAllOver and Hercwas very good points. I get the numbers thing and this was my assumption when they announced nurseries would not be shutting.
It was more, what effect (if any) do nurseries have on wider transmission. I appreciate that the numbers of children in EY care are smaller than the numbers in schools though so I guess this does answer the question for the most part. I just wondered how much of an effect the fact that these settings are less ‘Covid secure’ than schools (which I appreciate also aren’t ‘Covid secure’) would have on those lower numbers.

I’m probably not explaining myself very well here

[quote MessAllOver]@echt. No but the government is requiring them to homeschool so the government should pay them.[/quote]
That's something you could take up with your MP.

I think most ks1 classrooms are as 'bad' as nursery from a covid secure pov. It's not like they'll suddenly all sit at a desk all day in reception. That's why the effect of having them open is more down to the numbers than the environment.

Or parents could go on strike. Refuse to do the homeschooling and leave it to schools to catch children up when they go back. If I had a younger child, there's no way I would try to work simultaneously with homeschooling. That way madness lies.

No but the government is requiring them to homeschool so the government should pay them.
The majority of people are not home schooling.

I've got friends who home educate who made this point and I found myself agreeing with them. What most parents are doing is facilitating remote learning that is set by the school.

The 'but we are doing the teachers' jobs' argument falls down fairly quickly because unless you're designing remote learning materials, planning and delivering for key worker children, redesigning the curriculum with contingencies for students returning on site, etc then you aren't actually doing the job of a teacher.

I made dinner for my family tonight. Am I a chef? Of course not.

@MessAllOver

Or parents could go on strike. Refuse to do the homeschooling and leave it to schools to catch children up when they go back. If I had a younger child, there's no way I would try to work simultaneously with homeschooling. That way madness lies.

Oh incredibly mature Would you not want to put the children first and think about their education aftet all its top of everyone's priority list at the minute....rather than using them to try to prove a point ?

Then the only person you're doing a disservice to is your child. I hate this attitude that schools are for education and parents should do nothing.

@IfNot

The main finding in the Second World War, in research at war nurseries during the blitz was that children did much better than expected and managed the bombs falling quite well, as long as their parents were doing ok. The biggest problem for children in the war was when they were separated from their parents eg when they were sent away out of London, or parents died

Give me strength. My step-grandad was a child in the war. If you ask him what he remembers he says "being very cold, very hungry and very scared, for years." Yes, he "managed the bombs falling quite well" and he managed not really knowing his dad until he was 10, and he was fine because his parents didn't die, but he would roll his eyes at the idea that the war didn't have a massive impact on him.
When children have no choice, yes, they can be remarkably stoic. Hell, children in the middle of wars can appear just fine, but that doesn't mean that the lasting effects are not real, or that, given the choice adults should not put children first, every time.
Christ of I hear one more person mention the fucking blitz..

Yep. This. ^

@HalfPastThree

And what about the fact that children are often the index cases in a household?

This is another myth and has been debunked many times. When someone brings it into a household, then gives it to the others, it is normally an adult. Adults give it to children far more often than children give it to adults. There is lots of data on this.

Right, so that epidemiologist on the bbc news this morning must have got it wrong then. Clearly you know more than she does.

Actually, I think I would be putting my primary age children first by refusing to drive myself to a nervous breakdown.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

I think most ks1 classrooms are as 'bad' as nursery from a covid secure pov. It's not like they'll suddenly all sit at a desk all day in reception. That's why the effect of having them open is more down to the numbers than the environment.

Makes sense and I’m pleased you understood what I was trying to say through all my waffle

@MessAllOver

Actually, I think I would be putting my primary age children first by refusing to drive myself to a nervous breakdown.

If that is how you feel then yes you should stop or reduce homeschooling and put yourself and them first. Most schools are very much accepting that sometimes parents can't do everything. No young child will suffer from a loss of education long term. They have many years ahead of them to catch it up.

@Wherediditgo

Again - if children are such vectors of transmission why are the rates going down while nurseries are still open? Settings where there is virtually a zero chance of social distancing?

Seen this? Considering most people are trying to keep their kids home, I wonder why infection rates are not dropping as fast in primary and nursery aged children?

Ks1 kids need an hour a day, bit of reading, writing and maths. They aren't sat on live lessons all day. This could be done before or after work hours. Ks2 slightly more but they're getting old enough to manage part of it themselves. I've got friends with 8yos who manage the live stuff themselves and need parental input only to login. They also manage non live video lessons and need a parent to submit the assignment once done.

My point about the Second World War, based on the extensive research done on children at the time, was that how and where their parents were was the most crucial factor.
Also that they had a lot more resilience than people would have given them credit for- as long as they were not separated from their parents

No one said it was a walk in the park, neither is a pandemic. It's a hugely traumatic experience for all involved

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation. Education is different from schoolwork. You can educate without having to adhere to an imposed homeschooling schedule that involves a compulsory 9am online class meeting. Parents should do their best to educate but they shouldn't feel they have to homeschool if it doesn't fit with their own work schedules.

Seen this? Considering most people are trying to keep their kids home, I wonder why infection rates are not dropping as fast in primary and nursery aged children?

Nope I hadn’t. It certainly answers my question though so thank you for that.

@LolaSmiles

No but the government is requiring them to homeschool so the government should pay them. The majority of people are not home schooling.

I've got friends who home educate who made this point and I found myself agreeing with them. What most parents are doing is facilitating remote learning that is set by the school.

The 'but we are doing the teachers' jobs' argument falls down fairly quickly because unless you're designing remote learning materials, planning and delivering for key worker children, redesigning the curriculum with contingencies for students returning on site, etc then you aren't actually doing the job of a teacher.

I made dinner for my family tonight. Am I a chef? Of course not.

What a stupid statement.

[quote MessAllOver]@HercwasanEnemyofEducation. Education is different from schoolwork. You can educate without having to adhere to an imposed homeschooling schedule that involves a compulsory 9am online class meeting. Parents should do their best to educate but they shouldn't feel they have to homeschool if it doesn't fit with their own work schedules.[/quote]
Just educate your children then as best you can for a few weeks.
In a normal year if a child had any manor of illness chickenpox etc that could see them off school for a couple of weeks with no home learning in place and it wouldn't be a catastrophe for them

@FoolsAssassin

*Absolutely. When I saw Noblegiraffe was posting, my eyes rolled back so far in my head that it hurt. Noble doesn’t want to teach kids that she is paid to teach. She’s one of those teachers that doesn’t want to do the job she’s paid for under the guise of keeping safe. I expect she actually from the NEU itself and uses Mumsnet to whip up her hysteria and agree that kids should never go back.*

This is not my experience of Noble , I have been here for 18 years now and have seen many extremely helpful posts here from Noble. She was really helpful when my DD was struggling with her GCSE , taking the time to contact me off board to help and I know she has done so for many others over the years. Not to me the sign of a teacher that doesn’t want to teach the kids she is paid to teach - how do you extrapolate that from her posts?

I am aware she posted a lot in the autumn but at the end of the day circumstances have proved her right and we ended up in a right mess, much worse than last spring. It’s easy to roll your eyes at her posts and whilst I may not agree with them in their entirety always I think she has a very good point more often than not.

Personally I’m not anti lock down and I am not pro lockdown which is similar to most people I know. I hate this categorising people into 2 groups and pitting them against each other. Those who do it usually have an extreme agenda in one direction or another.

Nor my experience either. I'm one that Noble helped too, over the space of 10 years. A teacher not only dedicated to teaching and helping parents, but bothered enough to ask for decent H&S measures during a pandemic. So roll your eyes as much as you like, says more about you. Along with the personal attack.