Anti-lockdown campaigners using children to push their agenda

[noblegiraffe]

I can't be the only one disgusted with how certain groups are using faux concern about children to push the earliest dismantling of lockdown restrictions.

They are loudly catastrophising on the front pages of the press about our kids. The lost generation. £40,000 in lost earnings. Articles about schools full of traumatised kids suffering PTSD caused by lockdown.

And the solution they propose is always to re-open schools as early as possible. Even before March 8th. Regardless of covid.

Now, the situation in schools before Christmas was awful. Some areas of the country had less than 50% attendance due to the new variant ripping through secondary schools. Secondary school kids were the most infected subset of the population by far, and are now the second least infected subset of the population behind the 70+ age group after schools were closed, demonstrating that there was a massive problem with transmission in secondary schools. It wasn't good for pupils' mental health or education to be in a situation when they didn't know if they'd be in school or out at the drop of a hat. But before Christmas, there was complete media silence on the impact that this was having on children.

CAMHS has been devastated by cuts. Waiting lists are intolerable and children in dire need of support don't even qualify. Same for social care around vulnerable children.

Yet you won't hear these people clamouring for schools re-opening as soon as possible talking at all about how to improve safety measures in schools to prevent the scenario we had before Christmas happening again. You won't hear them demanding more funding for children's mental health services and for more support for social care services.

And the reason you won't hear that is that THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

The reason that they want schools re-opened as quickly as possible is because the message was that schools had to open first.

They can't get what they really want open (everything else) until schools are open, hence the massive focus on schools and how terrible things are for children.

This catastrophising isn't good for parents or kids. It's scaremongering and unhelpful.

I know that there are kids (and parents) really struggling with their mental health and worried about their education. Blaring out messages about how terrible things are and how they will never recover because you want to hype up the message about schools going back is irresponsible and sickening.

We need sensible and calm conversations about how to support children and parents. We need funding for schools and massive investment in support services. We need a long-term program of recovery, not 9 months of a Catch-Up Tsar and quick fixes. We need a measured and sensible approach to schools re-opening that won't see kids in and out and in and out due to lack of mitigation measures causing rampant covid spread (particularly with the new variant).

We need these anti-lockdown campaigners to shut up and stop dominating the narrative.

But if they were so bloody concerned, they’d be investing in a safe return to school. Not piling them all in again in the same way and letting it spread.

I’m a teacher. Those cunts don’t give a shit about kids or schools, believe me.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation - of course that time is gone. DD just has to get on with it and DH and I are supporting her all the way.

But noblegiraffe said: you can be damned sure that schools will be gearing up to address them. And are already engaging in addressing them (thats the issues caused by lockdown)
So I am asking how on earth can you adress the issues of lost time? As quite rightly, you never get it back!

I personally know from experience. Due to illness I missed a good 6 months of my GCSE year. I can honestly say it has not had a single impact on my life as an adult

ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I’m with you op. The fucking ‘Covid Recovery Group’

White middle aged men concerned about the investments and nothing else. Specially not children.

If they were so concerned where was the investment in Schools and CAHMS years ago?

Dickheads“

Damned right. The arrogance of these people is incredible to behold.
Thankfully, they have throughout ran contrary to public opinion.

@HalfPastThree

This is a very silly discussion. They OP's whole premise seems to be that if you reopen schools it will suddenly trigger loads of community transmission. There's no evidence for this and it has been debunked many times before.

Schools were closed because in early January there was a risk that the NHS would be overwhelmed. That risk has now gone, so the schools should open immediately. It's not complicated.

This is interesting. And may I am comparing apples with oranges but what about nurseries? They opened much sooner last time and they have been open all the way through this lockdown - yet the numbers are still falling? As I say, perhaps it isn’t the same but I’d argue it’s a much harder setting to SD in than a school, surely?

@BringBiscuits

gallbladderpain

BringBiscuits
I think OP is being really unfair to the parents of kids like mine who have literally not seen a single person outside of their immediate household for the last six weeks and the majority of last year. The only interaction my son has with other kids is via his xbox. Is it ‘faux concern’ to think this is really unhealthy for a child?

Seriously there is bloody kids haven't been able to see a single person outside their household for a year now because of covid and because no one is making an effort to reduce transmission in schools so these kids can attend ! I think they will survive 6 flipping weeks just fine !

If you read my post you’ll see my kids have been isolated for pretty much a year. Not just six weeks.

Have they gone to school in that time ? As you mentioned the 6 weeks which would indicate that they were in school September- December. If they weren't then I apologise but if they were then it is absolutely not comparable to a child who has literally not seen another child outside their household in a whole year. They haven't seen a relative from outside their household either Weeks spent in a dull 4 walled hospital room was fairly common for us even prior to covid and it is the reality for many many many children across the country and they get through it and I don't know too many that have suffered mentally as a result of it either

@HalfPastThree

This is a very silly discussion. They OP's whole premise seems to be that if you reopen schools it will suddenly trigger loads of community transmission. There's no evidence for this and it has been debunked many times before.

Schools were closed because in early January there was a risk that the NHS would be overwhelmed. That risk has now gone, so the schools should open immediately. It's not complicated.

Umm how do you explain low rates in the summer until the schools returned then?

I agree that the Covid Recovery Group are idiots with other interests, but unfortunately they're the only people looking after children's interests right now.

It would be nice to live in a country where politicians thought children were important, but we don't. Most MPs seem to have forgotten children exist.

So if the only people who will protect children, by letting them go to school, are middle aged idiots looking after their investments, I must reluctantly support the middle aged idiots.

And has the risk of hospitals being overwhelmed gone?

And what about the fact that children are often the index cases in a household?

Umm how do you explain low rates in the summer until the schools returned then?

Respiratory viruses spread less in summer in temperate zones - this is quite well known

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Don’t start me on the bloody teachers union.

Do any teachers actually support their militant views?

Why not tell us what you think of the teachers’ unions, then? Go on, you know you want to.

I’m sure some teachers support some of their views. Tell us what those militant views actually are, and we’ll tell you if we support them.

And what about the fact that children are often the index cases in a household?

This is another myth and has been debunked many times. When someone brings it into a household, then gives it to the others, it is normally an adult. Adults give it to children far more often than children give it to adults. There is lots of data on this.

Today 20:17 HalfPastThree

I agree that the Covid Recovery Group are idiots with other interests, but unfortunately they're the only people looking after children's interests right now.“

So sorry, but they really are not. They don’t give a toss about your kids, they’re using them and your anxiety about them (which I share, our youngest has had to study at home for the past year) to further their own greedy, selfish ends. They are so not standing up for your children. They would tread on their faces to up their balance sheets.

@HalfPastThree

This is a very silly discussion. They OP's whole premise seems to be that if you reopen schools it will suddenly trigger loads of community transmission. There's no evidence for this and it has been debunked many times before.

Schools were closed because in early January there was a risk that the NHS would be overwhelmed. That risk has now gone, so the schools should open immediately. It's not complicated.

Your second paragraph almost directly contradicts your first. If schools were not involved in increasing community transmission, why (partially, at least) close them?

@HalfPastThree

And what about the fact that children are often the index cases in a household?

This is another myth and has been debunked many times. When someone brings it into a household, then gives it to the others, it is normally an adult. Adults give it to children far more often than children give it to adults. There is lots of data on this.

You are completely wrong here. SAGE released a report at Christmas that stated that children were 7 times more likely to be the first case in a household and more than twice as likely to give it to another household member.

They don’t give a toss about your kids, they’re using them and your anxiety about them (which I share, our youngest has had to study at home for the past year) to further their own greedy, selfish ends.

If they want to open schools I am past caring what their motivations are. Nobody else in Parliament is bothered.

Although I'm sure they don't give a toss about my kids or anyone, they want to open schools, they don't want to open schools and then later on feed the children to their lions

Halfpasthree

You’re talking about stuff that’s way past. Kids are now the most likely to bring it into a household now. The biggest vectors.

Secondary are 7 times more likely to be the first case
Primary 2 times more likely.

Did you see the figures for early years last week?

I disagree. The tide is turning and we are starting to acknowledge the hugely negative impact of lockdown and restrictions on children for a year now. The situation now is completely different to pre Christmas- vaccinations are now hugely underway and likely to improve things. All vulnerable teachers will soon be vaccinated and the rest will need to suck up the risk like everyone else. Parents wfh and home schooling is not sustainable in any way.

@chocolateisavegetable, most of the 'long Covid' symptoms are exactly the same as I experienced after having TB and being diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue. While in the CF clinic, the stories of people were exactly the same as those who've been diagnosed with long Covid as opposed to post viral chronic fatigue. I'd like a doctor to explain the difference.

@CaughtInTheCovid

I disagree. The tide is turning and we are starting to acknowledge the hugely negative impact of lockdown and restrictions on children for a year now. The situation now is completely different to pre Christmas- vaccinations are now hugely underway and likely to improve things. All vulnerable teachers will soon be vaccinated and the rest will need to suck up the risk like everyone else. Parents wfh and home schooling is not sustainable in any way.

Why don't you just suck up the homeschooling and wfh then because the same way you say that is not sustainable it is not sustainable to open schools without further mitigation for everyone. But hey as long as you are OK and not having to do unsustainable homeschooling and work from home

But @gallbladderpain why is it unsustainable? Community rates are dropping and significant numbers of vulnerable adults are now vaccinated. These numbers will go up and up and already we can see that the vast majority of those likely to get severely ill and need hospitalisation are vaccinated and therefore pressure on the nhs is easing. This will get better not worse. So if all of this is about protecting the nhs and vaccines are helping why can’t schools open? We aren’t in the pre Christmas situation.

Kids are now the most likely to bring it into a household now. The biggest vectors.

Complete nonsense

There is lots of evidence on transmission in children - quite a lot here dontforgetthebubbles.com/evidence-summary-paediatric-covid-19-literature/

There was a worry at one point that the new strain was relatively more transmissible in children, but it turned out not to be the case

HalfPastThree

They don’t give a toss about your kids, they’re using them and your anxiety about them (which I share, our youngest has had to study at home for the past year) to further their own greedy, selfish ends.

If they want to open schools I am past caring what their motivations are. Nobody else in Parliament is bothered.

Although I'm sure they don't give a toss about my kids or anyone, they want to open schools, they don't want to open schools and then later on feed the children to their lions

Oh god, Halfpastthree, I sympathise entirely, believe me. Our youngest has been studying at home for a year. Wouldn’t it be better for everyone, though, if we could all just hang on in there until everyone over 50 was vaccinated? It’s a matter of weeks now and life could pretty much return to “normal”.

If we get this wrong, for the sake of a few weeks, we could be in limbo for months on end.

Trust me, please, I know where you’re coming from. As a health person, I’ve been locked up for a year!
A bit more patience and we’ll all be out if this mess

Yabu