We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

@ktp100

If we can't as a country go without pubs, Starbucks and holidays for a year or so to save thousands of elderly and vulnerable people then we are a country of cunts.

Which is becoming more and more evident by the day.

It’s not about any of those things. It’s about the mental torture of being isolated from human connections being kept apart from anyone outside your household for so long, children’s education and mental health suffering. People losing their livelihoods.

Totally agree OP. We are just existing at the moment, not living. There is no joy in this sort of life.

Zero covid. Like zero flu. Zero chicken pox?

@Dustyboots

But it is going to get better. You need to hang in there a bit longer.

Sorry @LastTrainEast we’ve been told that for almost a year now. That’s what this thread is about. People are not falling for that lie anymore.

You're right of course. It's all a conspiracy by 'them' to make you all miserable. There is no virus or maybe they made it just to annoy you.

But you won't fall for it and you'll be safe from the chip and the 5g beams won't you.

I see you and DuchessofHastings1 are both confused by the 'save the NHS' thing. it's amazing that there can still be people left who haven't understood that and think it's got something to do with doing the NHS a favour.

Ask a random person in the street to explain it to you. Even more of the children will know.

"Whose fault is it that our NHS cannot cope" you say because you think that the message about saving the NHS is about being kind to them don't you. Doing them a favour. It's amazing that there are still people left confused by that.

Ask anyone on the street to explain that part to you. Even most of the children will know.

@Livelovebehappy

But people aren’t getting the reason why someone at 84 is having the vaccine ahead of the young. It’s because our NHS isn’t coping with the increased hospital admissions of old people with covid. The majority of younger people don’t get ill, and don’t need hospital treatment. We need to vaccinate the ones who are causing our NHS to be on the verge of collapse. People still need operations and major surgery and cancer treatments, which are on hold as hospitals don’t have the capacity to treat anyone other than covid patients.

But I'm not even talking about the young- aren't there a lot of people in their 60s/70s being hospitalised? And what about younger CEV? Should have been vaccinated first.

I'm surprised anyone thinks the government are taking this approach because they actually give a fuck about the elderly and vulnerable! Come on now!

This thread is extremely interesting because you can see the tide turning against lockdown- imagine if the op had said this just a few weeks ago - I think there would be a different response

Where have you been ? this thread is like a hundred other threads that get started every single time we go into lockdown, lockdown is suggested or we are moving towards coming out of lockdown.

'This thread is really disturbing to read'

It is. Lots of hysterical and offensive comments about old people and very few people seeming to understand we aren't trying to save 100 year olds from drying, they are trying to stop those most at risk of serious symptoms requiring hospital treatment.

It's happening everywhere mumsnetters! Not just here. Just get on with with it. We all miss our normal lives.

*"If we open everything up lots of people will get sick all at once and the infrastructure of the country will be in danger of collapsing!

We need to keep supermarket shelves stocked, public services running and the lights on - never mind the NHS!"*

There was an interesting discussion on another thread that even in places where there has been no lockdown, and there have been huge numbers of cases, it's not clear that in any country the infrastructure has broken down - in the sense of electricity and food supplies failing, public transport etc breaking down completely. Has that changed now - has there been a breakdown of infrastructure anywhere - in manaus for example?

The virus couldnt give a flying fuck about any of this. It's strong, it's adaptable, it's evolving, finding new and better ways of latching on.

If we let this this thing run uncontrolled through the population it will mutate even more than it already is. The more mutations, the more chance of an even worse variant. What if it evolves, allowed to by us, into a strain that affects other age groups? What then?

Does anyone actually give a fuck about what could happen in the near future with this "stealthy and robust" novel coronavirus, if we allow it to run riot? It might be tiny, but it is "strong"

I cant watch the news anymore.
I listen to the headlines on the radio if I am out. And I read some bits of bbc news online. But I cant face actually watching the news.

Even if there has been a big announcement I dont watch it. Just read bullet points after.

Its just too depressing. I would like to take dc on a uk break this year. The way things are going atm I will not be surprised if we end up not going anywhere again.

Although I follow the rules, i had had enough of it all at the end of first lockdown. (Homeschooling SN kids was a disaster. I managed to get a place this time for sn child which is helping).

While it was bearable to wait outside an essential shop in the sumner for your turn it is not much fun now.

I had to wait ten minutes in minus temperature today with a biting wind outside the post office as they currently have three customer max in place. I was wrapped up well but I was so cold.

We need to reverse the under investment in the health service, along with re-evaluating what is provided. Both as individuals and as a country. There is likely to be a long tail and we need to be able to deal with that without having to lockdown

People still need operations and major surgery and cancer treatments, which are on hold as hospitals don’t have the capacity to treat anyone other than covid patients.

But should a life saving cancer operation for a 40 year old be cancelled so that a 90 year old can use the ICU bed? Up until about 10 years ago the consensus would’ve been no, but society has shifted so much recently that we want to preserve life (of whatever quality) above all else. This was one of the questions the Moral Maze asked.

:01GetOffYourHighHorse

'This thread is really disturbing to read'

It is. Lots of hysterical and offensive comments about old people and very few people seeming to understand we aren't trying to save 100 year olds

This!

@allAllmyarseandpeggymartin it ever occur to you that the people who disagree are maybe bored rigid of these posts, and can no longer be bothered to comment on them...

@frumpety

Whose fault is it that our NHS cannot cope?

It is the Governments responsibility, the NHS, so I am going to hazard a guess at it being the Governments fault.

It's the millions of cunts who voted for this government.

Haven't read the full thread, but vaccination alone won't get us out of this. We need infection rates low enough to enable proper contact tracing so that infection rates can be kept low and don't take off again as soon as society opens up. We desperately need a much better test and trace system, and to encourage people to get tested if there's good reason to think they may have Covid, rather than limiting tests to those with one of three "official" symptoms.

@PADH

The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense

Does anyone have a link for this bit?

I read it somewhere earlier too but can't remember where and can't find it

worse in what way?

It is getting ridiculous - I will not be getting my children vaccinated. The balance of risks does not make sense for them to have a new vaccine when, if they get covid, they are very unlikely to get particularly ill from it. It needs to have been been tested on the population over childbearing age for a significant number of years before rolling it out to children (or indeed women who have not completed their families).

Livelove you’d think that, and it was certainly the case at the start, but we’re being told now that a significant proportion of patients in hospital are something like 45-65- admissions for the very elderly / 80+ seem to be a lot lower than before.

I guess there could be several reasons - some of the frailest elderly will have sadly been killed by the first wave, most have now been jabbed, the middle aged group tend to be working therefore more exposed, and many elderly may not get as far as ITU as they’re more likely to be treated palliatively.

Some posters on here clearly in favour of no medical treatment for the elderly and/or vulnerable (it's both really, isnt it, but easier to name a 91 year old of course) and not doing well at hiding their views. Nazi Germany is that way ---->

I remember an experiment we were shown at uni and it involved regular members of the public inflicting pain on strangers. It was all about social pressures and rule followers. I can’t help but feel the govt are literally pushing us to see how far they can go. I don’t know where our snapping point is as a country ...

"I would honestly sign a wager saying "do not treat me in the event of Covid". And many others who are sick to the back of teeth of lockdowns would sign them."

No you wouldn't. That's just something you say on social media where it doesn't matter. if you get sick you'll forget all this and demand treatment.

@gypsywater

:01GetOffYourHighHorse

'This thread is really disturbing to read'

It is. Lots of hysterical and offensive comments about old people and very few people seeming to understand we aren't trying to save 100 year olds

This!

It’s got to be a wind up surely? I think it’s a troll invasion.

@AshMeri

This thread is really disturbing to read. I think they've been very clear recently and I'm no fan of Boris and his crew. The numbers of people in hospital with Covid at the moment are still higher than all the other peaks, the waiting lists for surgery, for cancer treatments, are at their longest in many years and this is because so many are in hospital with Covid. These measures are to get the numbers in hospital with Covid down so that the NHS can function. Not on the basis of some moral or ethical argument. Practicalities. That's the rationale behind the vaccination priority groups too. The effects of this will be felt for years to come by anyone who needs medical treatment and that really frightens me.

The effects of this will also be felt for years to come by the never ending rises in taxes. The amount of people who will lose their livelihoods and homes. Let’s see how well the sainted NHS fares when the great unwashed have no more to give and there are no tax coffers to pay for it.