We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

I totally agree @user1497207191. The last reform - which is currently being reversed - actually made it far worse. It needs root and branch reorganisation with all the bureaucracy removed so the money is spent on patient care.

I don't think anyone is talking about the pub. People want to return to businesses and have an income again; people want to see their families and people want their children educated

Exactly. I know online forums like to pit one extreme against the other, but in reality there is a big middle ground and most people can find agreement there.

This current lockdown is putting lots of people out of business, affecting kids' education and socialisation, affecting peoples mental health, etc. The social and economic impact is huge, I don't think anyone would argue that. We're locked down to stop the NHS being overloaded. Once all over 50s are vaccinated, there should be no real risk of that occurring, the lockdown can be lifted, people can still wear masks, social distance in queues etc. all that relatively easy stuff while the vaccination program moves onto the next groups.

So it depends what OP was referring to when she said "SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond". Which restrictions? If it means total lockdown, then of course most people won't agree/comply. If it just means still wearing masks in enclosed places for a few more months, I'm sure it'll be less of an issue.

@Octane

I don't think anyone is talking about the pub. People want to return to businesses and have an income again; people want to see their families and people want their children educated

Exactly. I know online forums like to pit one extreme against the other, but in reality there is a big middle ground and most people can find agreement there.

This current lockdown is putting lots of people out of business, affecting kids' education and socialisation, affecting peoples mental health, etc. The social and economic impact is huge, I don't think anyone would argue that. We're locked down to stop the NHS being overloaded. Once all over 50s are vaccinated, there should be no real risk of that occurring, the lockdown can be lifted, people can still wear masks, social distance in queues etc. all that relatively easy stuff while the vaccination program moves onto the next groups.

So it depends what OP was referring to when she said "SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond". Which restrictions? If it means total lockdown, then of course most people won't agree/comply. If it just means still wearing masks in enclosed places for a few more months, I'm sure it'll be less of an issue.

This is true @Octane 🤔

We need an NHS tax , it is unpalatable but true.

Yes, almost like a national insurance... ah, wait a second...

@GoldenOmber

Am willing to put up with lockdown, horrendous though it is, while the elderly and vulnerable get vaccinated.

Am willing to put up with restrictions getting eased slowly rather than all chucked out at once while the rest of the adult population get vaccinated.

But the idea of restrictions continuing even though people are getting vaccinated, just in case? This summer being worse than last summer even with most adults vaccinated? No, fuck off with that. These are emergency measures and they stop when the emergency does. “The NHS is going to be overwhelmed in a week” is an emergency. “There might be another mutation we can’t predict yet” is not.

We have very effective vaccines and a vaccination campaign that is going really really well. That’s it. That’s the way out.

I feel the exact same!

The patient profile of 2021 is very different from the patient profile of say the 1980s. COVID has surely made this obvious to anyone.

There’s momentum. Everything is still pushing forwards. Much has changed forever. But most people are capable of adapting.
Keep a constant eye on the bigger picture. It’s improving.

Look outside your window, I’ve said it before, the postman is still delivering in his shorts, the Ocado van is still trundling round the estate, the cornershop is still shortchanging you, and you’re still walking your dog and putting petrol in your car.
The flailing meaningless of it all is temporary, the lack of usual routine is unnerving but not catastrophic.

Here we are a furloughed household (on a 6 hour contract pay instead of the usual 25+ hours I work, welcome to retail ), self employed husband sat at home most of the week with no work, rent to pay, bills racked up, two young kids doing ok with remote learning but starting to get fed up.

I’m confident the government are doing what they can to keep the bigger picture progressing. Regardless of who I vote for.

On social media your world looks very different, people’s frustration is published in millions of comments, hundreds of fundraisers set up to pay someone’s rent, parents pulling their hair out over remote learning failings, strangers boasting of vigilante neighbour reporting.

But down the little Tesco, shoppers are still chatting to staff, the car park is still pretty much full every day, and road traffic is about the same as pre-lockdown. Life carries on, but the microcosm of BBC ‘Breaking’ news loops, Mumsnet and other online forums, and worst of all Facebook, makes it appear more of an apocalypse than it really is.

In the hospitals thousands of people are still dying every day before their time

Your Starbucks you miss, or your relaxing jollies abroad, they are not a priority right now.

with all the bureaucracy removed so the money is spent on patient care
the bureaucrats are doing very nicely out of the set-up so they will presumably cling onto the gravy train as hard as they can
we'd like to cut out the middleman but the middleman is in a position to play both ends to the middle and thwart every attempt to deprive him/her of that cushy little number😖

@Flaxmeadow

EarlGreywithLemon The problem is this - the genome of the virus has proven less stable than they thought and hoped at the beginning. If you lift restrictions and allow it to run riot among the unvaccinated under 50s, it will mutate- and one of those mutations could mean it evades the vaccines altogether. So we’d be back to square one. The solution is to vaccinate everyone (which we hope to do with at least one dose by September) - the vaccines should cut down transmission. Coupled with loosening restrictions very prudently and a good test and trace, that would keep numbers very low and significantly improve the odds that we don’t get a nasty mutation

This ^

V well explained by Earlgreywithlemon

hamstersarse

Yes I do, I’m also well within that age group with no health issues. However, many of my friends do, through no fault of their own.

'This current lockdown is putting lots of people out of business, affecting kids' education and socialisation, affecting peoples mental health, etc. The social and economic impact is huge, I don't think anyone would argue that'

You're right no one is arguing about that. The point is it was and is necessary. Johnson is announcing the next step on Feb 22nd!! they surely need to know they can make changes safely. No one has said that's it folks, lockdown until 2022.

@VinylDetective

I totally agree *@user1497207191*. The last reform - which is currently being reversed - actually made it far worse. It needs root and branch reorganisation with all the bureaucracy removed so the money is spent on patient care.

Dismantling?

they surely need to know they can make changes safely. No one has said that's it folks, lockdown until 2022

Right. But you get an OP like this wailing that "SAGE suggests restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay 'forever' last night on Peston" and everyone loses all perspective. It's like the idea of context doesn't exist.

If SAGE and John Edmunds were talking about extending full lockdown until 100% of the population has been vaccinated (or forever, lol!) then yes, let's all get upset about it. But I'm quite sure that's not what they meant.

Can I just say as well re health reform we need to focus on prevention too (I will admit to an interest). Otherwise making more sick people well very effectively (which the NHS does superbly) will be like sticking your finger in the hole in the titanic.

Well said @Nenevalleykayaker

@Nenevalleykayaker

There’s momentum. Everything is still pushing forwards. Much has changed forever. But most people are capable of adapting. Keep a constant eye on the bigger picture. It’s improving.

Look outside your window, I’ve said it before, the postman is still delivering in his shorts, the Ocado van is still trundling round the estate, the cornershop is still shortchanging you, and you’re still walking your dog and putting petrol in your car.
The flailing meaningless of it all is temporary, the lack of usual routine is unnerving but not catastrophic.

Here we are a furloughed household (on a 6 hour contract pay instead of the usual 25+ hours I work, welcome to retail ), self employed husband sat at home most of the week with no work, rent to pay, bills racked up, two young kids doing ok with remote learning but starting to get fed up.

I’m confident the government are doing what they can to keep the bigger picture progressing. Regardless of who I vote for.

On social media your world looks very different, people’s frustration is published in millions of comments, hundreds of fundraisers set up to pay someone’s rent, parents pulling their hair out over remote learning failings, strangers boasting of vigilante neighbour reporting.

But down the little Tesco, shoppers are still chatting to staff, the car park is still pretty much full every day, and road traffic is about the same as pre-lockdown. Life carries on, but the microcosm of BBC ‘Breaking’ news loops, Mumsnet and other online forums, and worst of all Facebook, makes it appear more of an apocalypse than it really is.

In the hospitals thousands of people are still dying every day before their time

Your Starbucks you miss, or your relaxing jollies abroad, they are not a priority right now.

That’s a lot of words just to say ‘I know nothing’ 🤬 Fuck Starbucks and holidays, that is not the priority of most of the people discussing the topic here, minimising people so they fit into your ‘Ooh I gaze out of the window’ narrative is ridiculous

Careful @Nenevalleykayaker you might get accused of being wilfully ignorant, oblivious and living in your own perfect bubble

@o8O8O8o

with all the bureaucracy removed so the money is spent on patient care the bureaucrats are doing very nicely out of the set-up so they will presumably cling onto the gravy train as hard as they can we'd like to cut out the middleman but the middleman is in a position to play both ends to the middle and thwart every attempt to deprive him/her of that cushy little number😖

Again you’re exactly right. I worked for the NHS during the last restructure and it was a job creation scheme. That’s why I said it has to be root and branch. Take out all the pointless tendering and the faux market economy and that’s numerous “jobs” gone at a stroke. Work from there to get rid of CCGs and every other part that never sees a patient. It can be done, it needs political will.

'Right. But you get an OP like this wailing that "SAGE suggests restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. '

Yes, I think we've just got to accept people who start threads like this and the back slappers who join on are at the extreme end of the hysteria spectrum. Most people are adapting and compromising and fully understand know its an evolving situation. The next steps will be set out when the evidence shows what is doable .

In the hospitals thousands of people are still dying every day before their time

This "before their time" stuff is trite and meaningless. My dad developed Alzheimer's in his late 60s and was dead shortly after his 73rd birthday. "By rights", based on his prior physical health he should have lived an active life into his 80s and then died a peaceful painless death, having seen his children grown up and settled and his grandchildren being raised. However he didn't because that's not how the world works and it sucks.

I don’t know how to link but you may want to check out a thread titled ‘So, what are you going to do’ before you start to consider yourself in anyway a majority.

@bumbleymummy nope, she meant those conditions. I re read the whole thread, some other people noticed it too.

@Fembot123

I don’t know how to link but you may want to check out a thread titled ‘So, what are you going to do’ before you start to consider yourself in anyway a majority.

Nah not without a link

A link to a thread on a site you are already on 😂😂