We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

I’m really struggling mentally. But I still don’t want to responsible for someone else’s death. We might as well see it through as long as we need to or we will have given up all this time for nothing and probably have to do it again.

Well I'd guess it will involve erm, infection rates and hospitalisation numbers. So as they come down and stay down so restrictions will be slowly lifted. They do hold fairly regular press conferences at 5pm on the news channels you know.

That's not the same as setting out a plan and a set of criteria so people have an idea about how and when these restrictions will be lifted

We knew last year that the plan was to create a vaccine. That worked, and the vaccinations are underway, which everyone is pleased about. The problem has arisen because now there are suggestions that these restrictions will extend beyond the most vulnerable being vaccinated

We were told that the aim was for the most vulnerable groups to be vaccinated by 15th Feb. That's Monday and we have not yet been told what next, what the ultimate plan or aim is here eg is it zero covid, is it getting the entire population vaccinated, is it getting hospitalisations to a certain number? We just don't know. Why should this be a guessing game.

I think the tide is turning and people are very fed up because of the way this is being managed.

what do you think would have happened with Covid? What do you really think the alternative is?

I don't really know, or care what would have happened. None of us do. I am looking forward to the future, recognising that what we have done in the past is no longer supportable as the most appropriate option going forward, and willing to live my life alongside COVID.

@VinylDetective

I think front line workers would prefer to use their skills, knowledge and integrity in an organisation that actually functions

I think someone who doesn’t use the services of that organisation, which saves literally millions of lives, should stfu.

I work with many people in the NHS and the thing I hear most is about the frustration of not being able to provide the care they want to their patients.

That is because of the way the NHS is organised and managed.

I am sure most nurses would relish an environment where they can do what they went into nursing to do. The current organisation of the NHS does not allow them to do that. It needs dismantling.

@Jaxhog

I am gobsmacked by the level of selfishness here!

Not all medical staff have yet been vaccinated. Most of those have only had the first jab. Having worked flat out for a year, they deserve not to be overwhelmed because some people want to go to the pub.

'Mental Health' problems affect ALL of us. Including those of us who've shielded for nearly a year.

Just because you are retired, doesn't mean your life is now worthless. Don't we deserve some life now after a lifetime of work?

Children in former years didn't have all the excess today's kids do. And we worked out ok.

I don't think anyone is talking about the pub. People want to return to businesses and have an income again; people want to see their families and people want their children educated.

Piss off with the pub shite.

The current organisation of the NHS does not allow them to do that. It needs dismantling

No it doesn’t need dismantling. It needs reforming. That’s like saying if you break your leg it should be amputated.

The MAIN problem faced by the NHS is not one of structure and organisation. It is a clear demand and capacity issue. This does need a solution. The current NHS set up does not fit the health needs of the 2021 population any more.

(NHS doctor)

Okay then @ClaudiaWankleman what you think WILL happen if it was as you want and we just sack lockdown off and hope for the best?

'People in their 50's and 60's who generally have lifestyle illnesses that they have so far not tackled.'

Yes I do actually agree but everyone deserves to be treated no matter how unhealthy their lifestyles.

I'm surprised PHE haven't used the last year to really push the healthy eating advice. Old people can't help their age, I wonder how many overweight people have accepted they are at much more risk of serious illness and actually tried to lose weight.

[quote Carrotcakeforbreakfast]@heidipi me too.
Then I get drawn in. I just keep reminding myself that people who I know in RL are the opposite of people on threads like this
The majority get it. They don't like it but they get it.[/quote]
I know what you mean. I don’t know why I get sucked into these either. This has now degenerated into a bun fight, as this type of thread usually does.

We need an NHS tax , it is unpalatable but true.

The lifestyle illness people
Pre covid those who preferred not to focus much on preserving their health expected to live normal lives and to receive the medical care that they needed, I think this was a perfectly reasonable expectation.
But now all looks a bit different, we are all very aware of how much at risk you are if you haven't looked after your health much

Well we won't be hoping for the best, will we? We have vaccinations targeted at the most vulnerable first. The rest of us have a very small risk and will continue to live our lives.
I think people will feel happier, they will be able to go out and get an education or earn money. People will see their loved ones and enjoy their lives again. COVID will continue to circulate, the way it will even if we continue lockdown in perpetuity, but the vaccinations will stop a lot of people dying, and where people are badly affected they'll be able to have the support of their friends and family.

Obviously all the younger people on this thread are slim, fit and won’t have any health ailments in their 50’s/60’s

@Kintsugi16

Obviously all the younger people on this thread are slim, fit and won’t have any health ailments in their 50’s/60’s

Hopefully the ones realising the link between a worse outcome and obesity aren’t obese yes.

@hamstersarse

You seem very confident that children are 'keeping up well' - that is, despite the multiple reports and facts that they are not? Why do you still deny that many many many children will not recover well from this?

Because I believe they will. I think you are wrong there are not multiple sourced reports saying what you say. Anecdotes by the hundred but not research.

I was a teacher and have many friends still teaching and they tell me that the majority are coping and doing ok. I've taught children who have had to miss a lot of time and the majority do catch up.

History proves this to be true.

That's not to say we shouldn't be concerned for the children who are struggling but no need to write them off yet.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'People in their 50's and 60's who generally have lifestyle illnesses that they have so far not tackled.'

Yes I do actually agree but everyone deserves to be treated no matter how unhealthy their lifestyles.

I'm surprised PHE haven't used the last year to really push the healthy eating advice. Old people can't help their age, I wonder how many overweight people have accepted they are at much more risk of serious illness and actually tried to lose weight.

So here we are....the older people have been vaccinated (rightly) and the ICU's are now been blocked by the people in their 50's/60's who have decided that their T2D didn't warrant some behaviour change, obese people who decided that they couldn't lose weight and I am expected to just take that?

I would say anyone who has decided not to tackle their own lifestyle diseases in response to Covid is not complying with the mantra to "save the NHS" and so how long do I have to wait before they do?

@Kintsugi16

Obviously all the younger people on this thread are slim, fit and won’t have any health ailments in their 50’s/60’s

Not everyone has health issues in their 60s. I’m nearly 70 and definitely not slim. I also have low blood pressure, low cholesterol and normal blood sugar levels.

'Obviously all the younger people on this thread are slim, fit and won’t have any health ailments in their 50’s/60’s'

Indeed, I'd hazard a guess most are anything but. By the time they're 70 they'll refuse all healthcare as they're going to die anyway.

@Kintsugi16

Obviously all the younger people on this thread are slim, fit and won’t have any health ailments in their 50’s/60’s

Yes, I take the best care of my health as I possibly can do

Obviously something may go wrong, but I try and mitigate that as much as possible.

Do you?

@VinylDetective

The current organisation of the NHS does not allow them to do that. It needs dismantling

No it doesn’t need dismantling. It needs reforming. That’s like saying if you break your leg it should be amputated.

The NHS has been "reforming" for the last 3 decades. Every reform seems to make it worse, not better as the core problems are never tackled. It's really nothing but re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. The time needs to come when we say enough is enough and actually make some pretty severe changes, not just faffing around the edges.

@snowydaysandholidays

We need an NHS tax , it is unpalatable but true.

Blair/Brown increased NIC twice to "save the NHS" - it clearly didn't work, as the leaky bucket didn't get it's hole filled in. We need drastic reform before any further tax rises and spending increases for the NHS are even suggested.

[quote Radio4Rocks]@hamstersarse

You seem very confident that children are 'keeping up well' - that is, despite the multiple reports and facts that they are not? Why do you still deny that many many many children will not recover well from this?

Because I believe they will. I think you are wrong there are not multiple sourced reports saying what you say. Anecdotes by the hundred but not research.

I was a teacher and have many friends still teaching and they tell me that the majority are coping and doing ok. I've taught children who have had to miss a lot of time and the majority do catch up.

History proves this to be true.

That's not to say we shouldn't be concerned for the children who are struggling but no need to write them off yet.[/quote]
No one is writing them off but to make such a blanket statement is shortsighted at the very least.