We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

@unim

I completely disagree.

Many of my colleagues have lost family members and their friends have lost parents. These people with 'underlying conditions' are pretty normal, working 50-somethings who have eczema, slightly raised blood pressure, pre-diabetes - ordinarily they would be economically productive for 15+ more years and much loved family members who provide childcare for grandchildren for years to come.

I think it seems theoretical and it's easy to 'other' people with 'underlying conditions' until it's your family member.

I'd much rather sacrifice more now to get things more under control so that Track & Trace can actually stay on top of cases in future. I don't want to have to live with worry for years about seeing and hugging my mum. I want to just take it seriously for a little longer now in order to get that better future.

Also, if you look up the statistics about long Covid, it's pretty grim. I have previously healthy, fit, active friends in their 30s who are badly affected by it almost a year after contracting Covid.

@unim I would have liked to have seen younger vulnerable people vaccinated as one of the first priorities along with NHS staff, not 104 yr olds and I don't care if I'm flamed or called a granny killer for saying it.

We should have been protecting them, not people who have lived well beyond life expectancy.

@Chosennone

I am starting to sway. I'm confused. Is there something they're not telling us? Is this going to affect kids more than they're letting on?

At first I was willing to comply totally to keep older and vulnerable safe. When groups 1-5 and definitely up to group 9 are vaccinated, why can't we ease up up morenor less completely? The line is fine and the balancing act precarious. But I'm scared I'm missing something.

One thing you are missing is that the virus doesn't email the government with its itinerary. Every decision must be based on the best estimate so far and that keeps changing when new variants appear. They are not telling you the whole truth because no one knows for sure.

But it is going to get better. You need to hang in there a bit longer.

Completely agree with you OP

Im not sure 'WFH' really works for people who are actually unwell with COVID or grieving the loss of a loved one or suffering long COVID? For self isolating folk, sure, but not those other groups.

If we can't as a country go without pubs, Starbucks and holidays for a year or so to save thousands of elderly and vulnerable people then we are a country of cunts.

Selfish?! We've lost nearly a year's income to this! Would you like my fucking kidney too?

I'd much rather sacrifice more now to get things more under control so that Track & Trace can actually stay on top of cases in future

We thought that last year though and the government fucked that up, so now I have lost faith and don't want to keep living like this on the promise of something that may very well not happen

Oh but the children!!!

Yes, it's dreadful.

Oh, but the businesses & employment.

Again, dreadful.

All of the 'Oh buts...' in the World are not more important than losing the NHS or thousands more Grandparents.

As a country, we don't get to be sad about Captain Tom dying one week and then say 'feck it, they're old anyway - get the kids back in school and let's book a fortnight in Tenerife for August' the next.

I'm sorry, I know most of you disagree with me and that's what we come here for, to give opinions BUT I just despair of what a selfish bunch we are!

@FlibbertyGiblets www.imperial.ac.uk/news/201833/cell-immunity-what-does-help-protect/

I think there will be civil unrest if schools don’t reopen

What’s really sad and sweet is you get all these posters on threads going “oh god did I break the rules”... let me tell you, we live in a prime tourist spot. Loads of twats have been living freely since day 1. Not a care, breaking every rule coming here thinking no rules... and yeah, police don’t enforce the rules here.

So I think, open it up moderately - businesses, restaurants cafes hairdressers shops etc. And if there are any rules eg a curfew or distance you can travel (so don’t spread new strain) then enforce that strongly.

Don’t have everyone under weak rules, make focused rules and enforce them.

Think will be easier when all over 70s have had second jab. Fingers crossed cos then I’m off to pub!!!

Eczema! That well known self inflicted condition LOL

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'mean why vaccinate people in care homes as a priority ? These are people at the end of their lives , this gov has lost the plot'

Perhaps once people get older and live in a carehome they shouldn't receive hospital treatment if they need it, is that what you think? The problem is older people tend to get severe symptoms you see, so you vaccinate those most likely to need medical care and unsurprisingly hospital admissions reduce, which is the whole point.

Whilst younger people (and by younger I mean 60s/70s), people who would hope for another 20 years or more, are still at risk, and are dying in significant numbers?

That's fair, is it? Do you think that doctors, NICE, don't make decisions all the time based on the age of the patient, benefits weighed up against cost?

Except with coronavirus we've gone completely against that.

But it is going to get better. You need to hang in there a bit longer.

Sorry @LastTrainEast we’ve been told that for almost a year now. That’s what this thread is about. People are not falling for that lie anymore.

@ktp100 I wasn't sad about Captain Tom because he was 10" years old and had lived a long life. But I am sad about my 10yo missing out on a proper education. I am sad about my son not being able to open his business and how badly his mental health has suffered at not being able to support his wife and baby. I am DONE being responsible for the health of the entire country.

Absolutely agree. Some people are insane. They seem to relish the destruction of social contact and happiness. To revel in fear and hatred. Frantic to achieve immortality & ‘safety’ at any cost, no matter the grotesque, immoral human suffering that entails.

While others of course are simply profiting from the panic - look at the PPE contracts, for instance.

Our children’s lives are being destroyed for the sake of pandering to unbalanced paranoia and profits. Media unquestioning. Dissent suppressed. This is bio-fascism & it will destroy our children and us if we let it.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

except many younger people who have survived are now ill with long covid

What's the answer then? Because certainly in younger age groups, the harms being done by repeated lockdowns and this miserable way of living are still far more prevalent and worse than long covid.

If it's the case that covid is causing such widespread death/ongoing health problems in young people, why aren't they a higher priority for vaccines? Surely that would be the right thing to do, to protect people who should have 40, 50, 60 years ahead of them? But we're not doing that (I have doubts if boosters and tweaked vaccines are needed that younger people will ever see a vaccine).

It can't be both ways, the young can't be deemed to be low risk enough to delay vaccinating, but also high risk enough that we all need locking up forevermore.

"the harms being done by repeated lockdowns and this miserable way of living are still far more prevalent and worse than long covid"

What is that based on? The debunked youtube/facebook whack-job claims about suicide?

@Thomasina2021

I think there will be civil unrest if schools don’t reopen

From parents? Do you think all the parents currently working and homescholling will have time to smash windows in town?

Or are you meaning older teens?

@Thomasina2021 yeah for a walk, I could post any number of links to the benefit of a walk both physically and mentally, but you would probably shrug and tut like my teens

No-one is denying it's rubbish doing lockdown in February, it is the worst month for a reason, January has one Blue Monday, February its the whole sodding month. Lockdown or not.

All of the 'Oh buts...' in the World are not more important than losing the NHS

I'm not sure what you mean -losing the NHS?
If you mean it might get overwhelmed/no space then we need to lock down and we have done that. But we also need a game plan for when we can start to do things again.
What Charles Walker was saying was that people need to have hope

@ktp100

Oh but the children!!!

Yes, it's dreadful.

Oh, but the businesses & employment.

Again, dreadful.

All of the 'Oh buts...' in the World are not more important than losing the NHS or thousands more Grandparents.

As a country, we don't get to be sad about Captain Tom dying one week and then say 'feck it, they're old anyway - get the kids back in school and let's book a fortnight in Tenerife for August' the next.

I'm sorry, I know most of you disagree with me and that's what we come here for, to give opinions BUT I just despair of what a selfish bunch we are!

I wasn't sad about Captain Tom. He was an extremely old man not related to me.

@LongCOVID honestly there’s no point in here, very few are capable of critical thinking to understand what you just tried to explain. They think they can rewind the clock to 2019 and carry on regardless 😂🙄🤣😆

*100 years old!!!

I truly truly hope that the government take the view of once the vulnerable are vaccinated - we’ve done what we can.

Same way we do what we can with meningitis vaccines and other modern medicine. Tragically, some people still die from awful diseases and it is horrid. But we do what we can.

No one wants to get ill but this fear has got seriously out of control. I know someone, extremely healthy, in his 20s, who caught regular flu and was in a coma for 9 months. Thankfully he recovered eventually. It was horrendous and awful and sad and it made me think about life and appreciate every day. Did it make me where a mask and sanitise everything and lock myself away in fear of it happening to me? No.

This thread is really disturbing to read. I think they've been very clear recently and I'm no fan of Boris and his crew. The numbers of people in hospital with Covid at the moment are still higher than all the other peaks, the waiting lists for surgery, for cancer treatments, are at their longest in many years and this is because so many are in hospital with Covid. These measures are to get the numbers in hospital with Covid down so that the NHS can function. Not on the basis of some moral or ethical argument. Practicalities. That's the rationale behind the vaccination priority groups too. The effects of this will be felt for years to come by anyone who needs medical treatment and that really frightens me.

Throughout all this, I often go back to the words below from Justice Munby in a court of protection judgement. I think it sums up our collective situation perfectly. I’m miserable and it’s too high a price to pay.

The fact is that all life involves risk, and the young, the elderly and the vulnerable, are exposed to additional risks and to risks they are less well equipped than others to cope with. But just as wise parents resist the temptation to keep their children metaphorically wrapped up in cotton wool, so too we must avoid the temptation always to put the physical health and safety of the elderly and the vulnerable before everything else. Often it will be appropriate to do so, but not always. Physical health and safety can sometimes be bought at too high a price in happiness and emotional welfare. The emphasis must be on sensible risk appraisal, not striving to avoid all risk, whatever the price, but instead seeking a proper balance and being willing to tolerate manageable or acceptable risks as the price appropriately to be paid in order to achieve some other good – in particular to achieve the vital good of the elderly or vulnerable person's happiness. What good is it making someone safer if it merely makes them miserable?”