We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

@WoodpileHouse: "We need to save the MAXIMUM number of lives."

Actually that's not my opinion at all.

Last year my mum died. She was in the vulnerable category, but she died of cancer, not COVID.

But because of lockdown we couldn't see her. By the time we arrived at the hospital, she'd passed away. Anyway, even if we arrived earlier, we. couldn't have seen her. Because of COVID rules.

I don't believe her life could have been saved.

But I'm absolutely certain she'd have wanted to see us and her grandchildren.

Lockdown — and our efforts to save every life — prevented that.

I'm glad we didn't take the guidance too seriously, and were able to see her at least a couple of times last year before things became terminal.

But I'd love to have seen her (and the children) a few more times.

Wasn't to be.

Need to save every life, right.

It isn't just about the elderly. If this virus is allowed to run out of control, there won't be a health service for ANYONE.

Why don't people understand this?

@Watchingbehindmyhands

Regardless of what some would like us to think, 50 year olds are not in incredible danger. Even an 80 year old with underlying conditions is far more likely to survive than to die of Covid.

@Isolatedizzy Its a security hack. EONs answer is to send pre payment customers to loads of shops to hunt for keys they havent sold for years. And was also given advice by them for DH to ring EON from the shop so stand in a tiny corner shop unable to social distance waiting for EON to answer the phone THEN they said for DH to hand the mobile over to the shop assistant so they could talk to them. Sending ppl round to loads of different shops and advice to share mobiles in a pandemic. Are we supposed to be protecting each others or is this really about those .lower down the scale protecting their "betters" because being treated like this it feels more like the latter. If the electric goes so does my lockdown compliance. I will not be screeched at to stay at home and protect the NHS when companies like EON are being absolved of doing so!!!

@Thomasina2021 pre existing conditions are not all caused by lifestyle
Eczema. Type 1 diabetic. Blood cancers. Autoimmune conditions
So no, people aren't dictating how you live because of something they've caused themselves

There are some appalling people on here. Old people "have had their lives" and can just die so you can go to "baby sensory"? I know having small children makes you think you are the centre of the universe but people have no idea of what life is worth. I'm genuinely disgusted.

If we’re going to be pragmatic about this @bumbleymummy, how will our medical system and our economy cope with the numbers of long term sick if we allow this virus to spread unchecked? Look up what’s happening in Brazil with chikungunya- which gives barely any symptoms but has left so many with long term consequences.

@hatebeak

There are some appalling people on here. Old people "have had their lives" and can just die so you can go to "baby sensory"? I know having small children makes you think you are the centre of the universe but people have no idea of what life is worth. I'm genuinely disgusted.

It's the harsh truth though isn't it?

Elderly have been dying every year from the flu which could have been prevented by lockdowns but we never have, cos simply, we cant cut off the lives of the younger working generation and destroy our children's education and futures over a small minority. Harsh but the truth.

"People have been mixing for ages now - in and out of each other's houses etc as they've had enough. Numbers haven't 'sky-rocketed' it's always something like 100 in 100,000 or something ridiculous like that. And even then many of those 100 won't even be that unwell. Just open stuff up and be done with it already! My fiancé is nhs frontline and agrees with me fully so nothing anyone says on here is going to make me think otherwise. It's just stupid now."

you clearly don't understand basic maths and working "NHS frontline" makes no difference, clearly.

@hatebeak

There are some appalling people on here. Old people "have had their lives" and can just die so you can go to "baby sensory"? I know having small children makes you think you are the centre of the universe but people have no idea of what life is worth. I'm genuinely disgusted.

I agree. I’m perfectly happy for my daughter to do without baby groups if that saves one single life. Quite apart from anything else, I have coped just fine having grown up without Gymboree.

[quote Bewareoftheblob]@Watchingbehindmyhands

Regardless of what some would like us to think, 50 year olds are not in incredible danger. Even an 80 year old with underlying conditions is far more likely to survive than to die of Covid.[/quote]
I agree. But any over 50 death is written off as ‘oh well, they were old’ or if Cv, ‘oh well, they were obese or had type 1’ or anything else. And it is menopausal women that are likely to contract long covid - again, people of working age who should be an integral,part of the recovery process. And any younger life that is taken prematurely or is now blighted with disability (because that’s the way it’s looking), is also another contribution lost to economic recovery.

Tell me, how many times have you or someone close to you needed life saving Oedipal intervention for something routine?

"in a couple of weeks it will be March, betterish weather ( if you like wet and windy )"

March was glorious last year.

Medical not Oedipal! Hilarious!

@RedToothBrush definitely. I spent a decade working for the ambulance service, more years as a home carer but suddenly because I'm CEV.. I've brought it on myself, should just stay inside and let everyone else get on with it
No matter I have a job and a mortgage. People seem to think we are all end of life and dying anyway when a lot of us have a perfectly normal life expectancy

@Flaxmeadow

It isn't just about the elderly. If this virus is allowed to run out of control, there won't be a health service for ANYONE.

Why don't people understand this?

Isn’t that what the vaccine is for? To reduce the risk of hospitalisation in the groups that are most vulnerable to covid? So if we’ve vaccinated the most vulnerable and the virus is allowed to ‘run out of control’ then hospitals shouldn’t be over run. Particularly when you also take into consideration the large numbers of people who have already been infected and are now immune (as shown by recent studies).

My fiancé is nhs frontline and agrees with me fully so nothing anyone says on here is going to make me think otherwise. It's just stupid now

We went from 16k cases a day at the beginning of December to 60k plus a day a month later. At that point, the over whelming of the NHS was imminent. Is your fiance that poorly educated in his/her field that they don’t understand what that would mean if it had continued unchecked? Are you really not able to see that bigger picture?

So if we’ve vaccinated the most vulnerable and the virus is allowed to ‘run out of control’ then hospitals shouldn’t be over run

Have you missed the mutation issue, perhaps? The huge unknown?

@EarlGreywithLemon

If we’re going to be pragmatic about this *@bumbleymummy*, how will our medical system and our economy cope with the numbers of long term sick if we allow this virus to spread unchecked? Look up what’s happening in Brazil with chikungunya- which gives barely any symptoms but has left so many with long term consequences.

The majority won’t end up with long term conditions that require care though will they?

Elderly have been dying every year from the flu which could have been prevented by lockdowns but we never have, cos simply, we cant cut off the lives of the younger working generation and destroy our children's education and futures over a small minority. Harsh but the truth

Untrue. Not the same illness. Please look at the figures with a critical eye.

@ktp100

If we can't as a country go without pubs, Starbucks and holidays for a year or so to save thousands of elderly and vulnerable people then we are a country of cunts.

Which is becoming more and more evident by the day.

Yeah, except it’s far far more than that you selfish ignorant twat.

bumbleymummy

Hopefully, but not everyone is vaccinated, the virus is always mutating and we don't know how long immunity lasts. Some say maybe only 6 months

Also, it's a new virus, they are still learning

Some people here are missing the point.... It's not and never has been about saving every life. However intensive care and hospitals will be full of covid patients (a lot survive, and it's those ones that need hospital care but survive you should focus on, rather than death toll), and if full of covid patients they need to cancel other patients, such as those needing surgeries. It's this situation they are trying to manage.

@Watchingbehindmyhands

So if we’ve vaccinated the most vulnerable and the virus is allowed to ‘run out of control’ then hospitals shouldn’t be over run

Have you missed the mutation issue, perhaps? The huge unknown?

Oh stop. Viruses mutate all the time. This one mutates less than flu and we don’t all run around screaming every year about ‘the huge unknown’ of a flu mutation. It could just as easily mutate to something that’s even milder for the majority.

I would be really interested to know how many people on this forum know people who have had Covid or have heard anecdotally about people who had had it. . Of those people, how many have died? I have heard of a lot of people anecdotally who have had it. I also know a few personally. Only one person have I heard of dying. The father of a friend of a relative. Yet we have the news shrieking at us all day long, scaring us out of our wits and locking us away in fear that WE WILL ALL DIE. This is not to say that the NHS is not struggling, of course it is, and people are dying. But the fact is, most people will survive. There is a balance to be struck between this constant hysteria and life having to go on as normally as possible.

Am willing to put up with lockdown, horrendous though it is, while the elderly and vulnerable get vaccinated.

Am willing to put up with restrictions getting eased slowly rather than all chucked out at once while the rest of the adult population get vaccinated.

But the idea of restrictions continuing even though people are getting vaccinated, just in case? This summer being worse than last summer even with most adults vaccinated? No, fuck off with that. These are emergency measures and they stop when the emergency does. “The NHS is going to be overwhelmed in a week” is an emergency. “There might be another mutation we can’t predict yet” is not.

We have very effective vaccines and a vaccination campaign that is going really really well. That’s it. That’s the way out.