We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

@Jaxhog

I have no idea why the government don’t talk to us like we’re grown ups.

That's simple. Because we don't ACT like grownups.

Unfortunately, I’m beginning to think you’re right

@Angel2702 where are the figures re suicide from lockdown ?
Lol did you care about child poverty, domestic violence, food banks prior to this ? Crocodile tears
let's be honest - the tories won an 80 seat majority. All those bleating about single parents with 3 kids in mw jobs and living in tower blocks probably voted for the same self serving tory mps who were happy to castigate the same people....

@WoodpileHouse

We are simply trying to preserve as many lives as possible. Just because that life is someone who has another illness, a disability, a different skin colour, is over weight, is old enough these lives are very precious. It is more important to save LIVES than it is for people to socialise. Finances, education, mental health all can be recovered. There is no recovery from death.

We need to save the MAXIMUM number of lives.

So do you think that everyone recovers from being beaten up by their partners, from depression, from being homeless, or from being in poverty?

Will they though? or will it just be more confusing bumbling and mixed messages

Think of it like a weather forecast , 30% chance of confusing bumbling, 30% chance of mixed messages, 30% chance of science and 10% chance of precipitation

those who are having a fuckin heart attack but are too scared to go to A&E cos of this stupid virus

So how would letting the virus run loose help with that? Surely they will be even more scared to go to A&E? And A&E will be collapsing so not able to help them anyway.

@Jaxhog

Wow! So your life is worth more than my mums then? Have we really come to this?

That's how it has always been. Old lives are worth less than young ones.

Does anyone know any elderly who want this continue? All the elderly I know - including my parents - are adamant they don’t want to fuck up their grandkids any more than has already happened

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Does anyone know any elderly who want this continue? All the elderly I know - including my parents - are adamant they don’t want to fuck up their grandkids any more than has already happened

Yes, yes I do. My parents would like to live to see their grand daughter.

They’re also of the view - which I agree with- that she’ll be absolutely fine without baby sensory for a few months.

@Meinelieblingskatze
You don't know anything about my life or issues which I cared about pre-covid. It isn't relevant to the argument I was making but I have cared about and worked with vulnerable children, particularly children known to social services, for a long time. I also work with various charities who support people living in poverty. This is probably part of the reason that I am more concerned about the impacts of lockdown than covid itself.

I could just as easily turn this round and say did all the people who are suddenly very concerned about the elderly and medically vulnerable care about them before covid? Did they care about conditions in care homes or deaths from flu or the fact that many old people are isolated? I suspect not all of them thought about it much beforehand but that doesn't necessarily make their concern now faux.

There were threads on here about whether, once we have vaccinated over 50s, spare vaccines should be given to developing countries. The overwhelming consensus was that we should keep vaccines to ourselves and use them for healthy 20 year olds rather than given them to vulnerable elderly people in developing countries. That suggests to me that concern for those at risk from covid from those who support lockdowns doesn't extend very far from home.

Sorry, until, it has happened to me. One of my children died, natural causes, secondary infection. And I disagree with you. I'm terrified for my surviving children now who are depressed, getting more and more underweight, and one has SN and is getting seriously bad with it.

This can't go on.

The majority of people over 80 who contract this still survive. Worth remembering I think. It’s not a choice between being locked up or dying from COVID.

Completely agree with you OP

@MercyBooth I'll have a read of that tomorrow but that's exactly my point! We can't let this just run through the working population, it would be a disaster!

@WoodpileHouse

We are simply trying to preserve as many lives as possible. Just because that life is someone who has another illness, a disability, a different skin colour, is over weight, is old enough these lives are very precious. It is more important to save LIVES than it is for people to socialise. Finances, education, mental health all can be recovered. There is no recovery from death.

We need to save the MAXIMUM number of lives.

What about the suicides of people losing their homes and businesses?

@bumbleymummy

The majority of people over 80 who contract this still survive. Worth remembering I think. It’s not a choice between being locked up or dying from COVID.

It’s also not as simple as not dying of Covid. A hospital stay with COVID can have long term consequences for the sufferer, especially in ICU. That’s before we even go into the issue of long Covid.

@Chessie678 I work in ICU. Can tell you that it's not full of 80 year olds. I've looked after several patients - women - in their 30s/40s who died leaving young children, economically productive, relatively well.

I agree that we need to look towards a future without fear.
We cannot live a half life which is mostly an existence for any huge length of time.
The doomsayers love to say ' this could be here for many years'.

Here in Victoria, we had 112 days of lockdown July to Nov.
We have 13 (thirteen) cases from hotel quarantine and are likely to have another lockdown for these 13.

But it is OK, as it is our first lockdown since...November.

Kids are worried, workers are worried. it is bloody awful to live in a state of fear over something which will hang around for a while yet.

Just commenting on your thread title.....
We aren't cancelling lifecthough are we....we are shutting some things temporarily to reduce hospital admissions....

That's how it has always been. Old lives are worth less than young ones

Except 50 is very much middle-aged and working age. Pretending that the age 50-65 are neither a significant nor important part of our workforce (and therefore significant to economic recovery) is hardly going to help build a brighter future. Equally, refusing to acknowledge the significant contribution the many CEV and CV people make to our economy is equally foolhardy. I also wonder how those who pretend that over 50s are expendable are going to feel when they reach that age. I can bet they will still feel there is plenty of useful life left in them.

We live in a civilised, modern society where we value all lives. If you don’t like the current restrictions and what they mean, you should fear a too-soon return to normal, without lockdowns, even more. Too many people without a clue how tomorrow it could be them in need of a routine, but urgent health intervention an overwhelmed NHS has to turn away, causing death. You need to very carefully look at the figures and ask yourself how many weeks it would take for their to be utter chaos, civil unrest, empty supermarket shelves and the military deployed to the streets. Then you’re really talking about the removal,of civil liberties.

I am no fan of this Government. I think our death toll is too high and decisions are reactive. However, whether we like it or not, they have kept us out of total emergency and the problems that brings. Investing in vaccines was, I believe, pin in a map kind of decision but fingers crossed it will,pay off.

On top of all that, the science is saying that the more we pass the virus around, the more chance of mutations. The more mutations, the more chance of one that stops killing less than 1% of us and starts killing 10%, or 25% or the under 20s, or is totally resistant to the vaccines....It needs to be squashed. We need to stop passing it around. So we need to be patient because if we get unlucky, we are back to square one.

Totally agree. The fact is the vast majority of people don’t die if they get Covid. The damage that living like this is doing is far far worse than anything the virus is doing in my opinion.

@Pootle40

Is Long Covid the modern day ME?

Yes, I have had M.E and it is exactly the same thing, but we know that it's specifically from covid. It does make it easier in terms of research and in terms of patients being taken seriously if you call it long covid. It has annoyed me that no one believed me when I was sick, but all of a sudden people care. There are also some specific symptoms that come from COVID as it is a different kind of disease, but I had most of them anyway (such as lung damage and high white blood cell count) I really hope that this might be the catalyst for people with M.E. to be heard finally, and maybe some research into long covid will help those with M.E.

I'm personally sick of this. I'm pregnant currently and I'm not willing to have my family and friends miss out on baby's life for this crap. It's gone on way too long they've had their chance to deal with it properly. My mental health can't take anymore

@bellver888

It isn’t even about the fucking pub or shops why does that always come into it.

Its children, the first year of my babies life was spent indoors either going to the supermarket or for a walk in the park, no one could come and cuddle him, no baby groups, barely any spaces at sensory and for what?

development and socialisation of children has been hugely impacted through covid19 and another poster is right, we’ve sacrificed absolutely everything for people who have had their lives?

Your baby won't remember the first year of his life...he will be fine

@EarlGreywithLemon yes, I know. But are those long term consequences worse than the long term consequences for a much larger number of people living under these restrictions for over a year? Missing final months with family or friends, losing jobs, houses and financial security, missing opportunities for academic or career progression etc etc. The vast majority of people will not end up in hospital with this disease or have any long term consequences from having it. We are all living with the consequences of lockdown though and will be for many years to come. I’m fairly certain that future analyses will find that it wasn’t worth it.