We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

If it’s down to hospital numbers tell us that and tell us the threshold to open things up! The idea that this doom and gloom scaremongering will make us fall in line is a fallacy, people are in despair at the mixed messages and moved goal posts!

Also I can't believe people still don't get why the vaccines are being given in the order they are

Is Long Covid the modern day ME?

It isn’t even about the fucking pub or shops why does that always come into it.

Its children, the first year of my babies life was spent indoors either going to the supermarket or for a walk in the park, no one could come and cuddle him, no baby groups, barely any spaces at sensory and for what?

development and socialisation of children has been hugely impacted through covid19 and another poster is right, we’ve sacrificed absolutely everything for people who have had their lives?

@Dongdingdong Don’t be stupid, read my post. Long covid isn’t merely post viral syndrome, it’s much more for many on the forums I’m on and has been hell for me personally for 11 months. I’m not unfit, I’m definitely no hypochondriac, I’ve coped with very difficult things throughout my life. Having said all that the numbers of people suffering, awful as it is, doesn’t justify to me personally, locking down the majority who are barely ill..we have to get back to living, for the sake of children and businesses etc. I realise I’ve been fucking unlucky and have no idea why, please don’t trivialise it though, you can’t know unless you have it.

People will die as a result of the long term unemployment and poverty caused by lockdown. The relationship between unemployment and shortened life expectancy is very clear. Combine that with an NHS which we won't have the tax revenue to fund properly and a population whose mental health has taken a battering and you will inevitably decrease the life expectancy of a large proportion of the population. So healthy people of working age are literally being asked to sacrifice years of their life to marginally decrease the risk to someone who is probably older than them.

Meanwhile we don't actually know how many if any have been "saved" from covid by lockdown. Since so much of the spread of covid has been in hospitals and nursing homes it's quite possibly that the overall impact of lockdowns has been minimal and certainly insufficient to justify the massive harm done.

My guess is that lockdown will take more years off peoples lives over the next decade than it has saved.

Not sure why you posted all that drivel about homeschooling and holidays

Because they are people just like you and me ( hundreds of them), just doing their best during a very difficult time.

But back to the But any way - why won’t they release how they are getting their findings? What is it that you don't think you can find out with a quick google ? What 'findings' do you believe they are hiding from you ?

@Pootle40 No, no it isn’t.

Thomasina, Flax, Covidhalloween, I have no idea why the government don’t talk to us like we’re grown ups. I heard Matt Hancock floundering and tying himself in knots about summer holidays on the Today Programme this morning. Jeremy Farrar was on a little bit beforehand and explained the uncertainty we’re facing in clear and sensible terms (transmission rate still quite high at the moment etc). The point about the genome was made by another scientist a few weeks ago (may have been Paul Hunter but I can’t remember).
I think the government are playing to the gallery of the extreme libertarians of the 1922 committee and CRG and won’t just come out and tell us the truth - this whole thing has proved hairier than we hoped, and we need to be cautious for a bit longer.

If it’s down to hospital numbers tell us that and tell us the threshold to open things up! The idea that this doom and gloom scaremongering will make us fall in line is a fallacy, people are in despair at the mixed messages and moved goal posts!

in a couple of weeks they are providing a road map type thing and telling us these plans , just need a little more data , this has been said
Also goalposts have changed as numbers went up and new variants made it spread more, its evolving all the time, so anything they say will always be only of things are ok and numbers don't jump up again or hospital admissions etc

@MaxNormal no obviously no one ever died prior to covid
But in recent years you didn't have 30 odd thousand people with the same virus in hospital at one time week in week out, or >1000 people a day dying of it. Or hospitals having to requisition whole wards to deal with huge numbers of critically ill patients. Or staff without ICU experience being transferred to critical care areas with very little training. Or ICU staff having to care for 4 patients at once because their colleagues are off with covid, self isolating or simply that there are too many patients for staff.
Same tired old posters piling onto threads like these, stirring up emotions, probably name changing furiously. No one is enjoying lockdown but later in the year things will undoubtedly have improved. My kids are equally frustrated but know that normality will return sooner or later.

[quote Meinelieblingskatze]@Angel2702 mental torture ? Really..... ? Just existing, not living ? Think you need to get a grip. Self indulgent melodramatic tosh and actually a bit
tasteless considering that people of all ages have died.[/quote]
Many have died from mental health issues due to lockdown. Some may cope fine being isolated others do not. Not everyone has a rosy household where they can live indefinitely without the support of other people. Do not assume because your personal situation is bearable that that is the same for everyone.

It will be a year of restrictions in a few weeks time and I don’t resent the lockdown, it’s clearly been necessary. But it’s got to a point where my (everyone’s) kids lives are really suffering. There has to be a sensible discussion about how long we can keep children out of school when our vaccination programme seems to be on track. I could just about cope with them going back after the Easter break but talk of May/June really makes me worry for my children’s mental health.

in a couple of weeks they are providing a road map type thing and telling us these plans , just need a little more data , this has been said

Will they though? or will it just be more confusing bumbling and mixed messages

[quote IAmADancer]@flaxmeadow

I suggest you listen to the podcast as this is discussed in detail. He actually says that most virus continually mutate over time so that they become less serious to society. This is how the common cold evolved. By locking down this can’t happen, the virus can’t mutate to the point of it just being a common occurrence so instead you get more virulent strains.[/quote]
Unfortunately viruses don’t always mutate to be less deadly. If left to spread unchecked, they can become more deadly. There’s no evolutionary pressure on them to not kill their host if there are plenty of hosts available. This can be particularly true of Covid which can spread before the host shows symptoms. Don’t forget that the Spanish Flu mutated to become more deadly in the second wave, probably because it could run riot among the men crammed together on the Western Front. A good outline here: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/19/coronavirus-evolving-deadlier-evidence-social-distancing-covid-19

by the end of all this the non covid deaths during lockdown will be astronomical

the abused children who’s only meal was school lunch
cancer patients waiting for treatment
women experiencing domestic violence
people who have absolutely no one to even “zoom call” with
those who are having a fuckin heart attack but are too scared to go to A&E cos of this stupid virus

a woman has been sentenced today for killing her disabled son because the support was that fucking bad in lockdown she developed psychosis, these are the people my heart breaks for

My father and his friends (all over 70) have all had their first jab. There is no f*cking way on earth to keep them contained they are all going out out quoting one life to live and all that.
#bemoredad

@Chessie678 did you give a sh*t about communities and individuals experiencing poverty/deprivation because of austerity ? Give over with the faux concern. Life's been pretty crap for millions prior to covid - food banks, UC, benefit cuts, homeless, families stuck in b and b's, domestic violence, poor schools and underachievement etc funny how you show concern only when it hits you ....

@HermioneWeasley

Agree. The average age of people who’ve died from Covid is older than average life expectancy. Death is part of life. People have to die of something.

Wow! So your life is worth more than my mums then? Have we really come to this?

This is very easy to say when you are in a low risk group.

If you are in a high risk group, i would think you'd probably feel more like you were not considered equal or that your life is worthwhile and that other people were quite happy to sacrifice you just so they can have their holiday and have their essential birthday parties for 5 year olds.

Its deeply unpleasant and ugly.

I have no idea why the government don’t talk to us like we’re grown ups.

That's simple. Because we don't ACT like grownups.

I don’t think so red

What we are saying is that increasing numbers of us feel there are worse things than death by covid

To add to above point, my children are not coping with this lockdown, they need to be at school and socialising. I am signed off work with stress trying to hold down a job, homeschool and recover from Covid.
There are millions of people hanging on by a thread financially to keep the olds alive. Now they are vaccinated lockdown MUST stop.

untilithappenstoyou I’m so so sorry for your loss. There truly are no words

We are simply trying to preserve as many lives as possible.
Just because that life is someone who has another illness, a disability, a different skin colour, is over weight, is old enough these lives are very precious.
It is more important to save LIVES than it is for people to socialise. Finances, education, mental health all can be recovered.
There is no recovery from death.

We need to save the MAXIMUM number of lives.