We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow Do you have any more info on the nutrition? Willing to try anything 🙏 on a multitude of supplements, anti histamine and anti inflammatory diet etc and still not 100%

@gypsywater

Some posters on here clearly in favour of no medical treatment for the elderly and/or vulnerable (it's both really, isnt it, but easier to name a 91 year old of course) and not doing well at hiding their views. Nazi Germany is that way ---->

Oh seriously get a grip.

We have lost all perspective of what is a good age to reach. Of celebrating a life well lived. And even of what is best for individual people, continually treating elderly people (in some circumstances before you accuse me of wanting to withdraw medical treatment from all elderly people) who are in horrendous pain, until there is literally nothing else they can do. Life at all costs.

I've witnessed two grandparents die long, drawn out, painful deaths, and it's currently happening to a third. Death will be a relief. It doesn't make me a eugenicist to believe this. To also think, well what is worse, a 95 year old dying? Or a 25 year old, or even a 75 year old? Have we completely lost sight of the fact that we are actually not immortal, and the best we can hope for is a long life, in the best health possible?

I've had several close family members die of cancer in their 20s/30s. I can come to terms with the deaths of my elderly grandparents. My 23 yr old cousin? Not so much.

I would highly recommend listening to this weeks Planet Normal podcast with Dr John Lee. It gives you another side to the Sage doom and gloom and actually makes you question what the government is telling us especially in terms of numbers. He also explains in more detail about covoronavirus’s and how they work and how mutations work. So even if we lockdown the country you will still get UK mutations as that’s what virus’s do.

I for one have had enough. I have two small children, one who is pretty much in the middle of a nervous breakdown and if I hear one more person tell me that kids bounce back I might scream.

Also, would we do a rollcall every day on the news of the 450 people who die of cancer every day? Their stories are just as important as the people that have died from covid.......

@gypsywater

Some posters on here clearly in favour of no medical treatment for the elderly and/or vulnerable (it's both really, isnt it, but easier to name a 91 year old of course) and not doing well at hiding their views. Nazi Germany is that way ---->

This.

So many people won’t realise that it’s their Gp who and a kidney transplant, or their kids teacher who had cancer, or their diabetic solicitor that will die. Not just old people.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind
My post clearly states elderly AND vulnerable eg CEV

But should a life saving cancer operation for a 40 year old be cancelled so that a 90 year old can use the ICU bed?

Swop 90 for 60 and you would be more truthful. Do you have the numbers for 90 yr olds currently in ICU beds ? It isn't just about ICU beds, whole wards are having to be designated Covid wards ( where you will find the 90 yr olds ), that has a massive impact on any hospital, the bed numbers are squeeky bum tight at the best of times.

@OakSnows
But according to some hard of thinking and morally bereft posters on here, those conditions must be 'self inflicted" in some way

Oh seriously fuck New Zealand, I'm so tired of that irrelevant comparison.

Some need to calm the fk right down.

Being in such close quarters together for months will not be cured by being in close quarters with thousands of others by the sea or elsewhere will it? Apart from the change of wallpaper. And everyone else will be there too who could infect you, and you could too! Jammed roads, beaches, shops, etc. Does not sound delightful either.

I couldn't be arsed personally. Far too depressing. Oh and the Effiin journey also. Too overpriced, jammed, stressful and hell on wheels.

A Staycation means staying in your home BTW. LOL 😂

Adults are sounding more like kids these days, when all kids want is forbidden food and no nagging to be good. Can be done without packing your boot up for a holiday with many thousands of others.

This too shall pass. Give the kids and your partners a big hug regularly.

@IAmADancer Excellent point about how people do die of other things apart from covid. Cancer deaths in the U.K., isn’t it about 160,000 per year, every year for decades? That statistic is just background noise at the moment.

'People just don’t get it do they? Saying lift the restrictions to treat more cancer patients, it doesn’t work that way. Covid is life and death in your face, you have to treat the people gasping for breath and having blood clots in front of you, that means you can’t treat the “well” cancer patient at home. It means if your child is in a car Accident the ambulance takes slightly longer to get there and the A&E doctors are doing their best but not maybe as quick'

Exactly. But, but they keep changing the goal posts waaah. Honestly, I don't know one person having a great time at the moment but surely there is some good news, numbers are down, deaths are down, vaccinations are up. Announcement on Feb 22nd will give us a tentative opening up plan. Try some positivity fgs.

This has gone on for too long, people are fed up and will rebel. If this is life for the foreseeable then we might as well have fun and spend time with our loved ones. I know my elderly mother would rather spend time with her grandchildren for a weekend than spend the next goodness knows how many months/ years without them!
As a pp said, it's 99% survival. We forget that when we're hearing all the stats. I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories and am a woman of science. I had covid, it wasn't fun but I'm fine now.

[quote gypsywater]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind
My post clearly states elderly AND vulnerable eg CEV[/quote]
And @gypsywater I said earlier in the thread that if it has been my decision I'd have vaccinated the younger CEV people as first priority along with NHS, so read the thread before you start with hyperbolic drivel about nazi Germany.

If the NHS is overwhelmed with all over 50s vaccinated then it is simply not fit for purpose.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind
Says the drivel poster of the thread...a bit rich but OK

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind That’s an important point, that we have lost sight of our own mortality. Losing a loved one is always hard of course, but when they are very old it is a sad and inevitable part of life.

@Frazzled6

I watched Peston last night too and John Edmunds stated we can't unfortunately protect the vulnerable and let this rip because the younger members of the community will be in hospitals and the morgue. We have to all work together which is what New Zealand has done, accept that life may have to be put on hold because we didn't adopt the right approach 12 months ago but now realise we have to be really tough to crack it.

Where is the evidence that Covid will ‘rip through’ the younger community leaving them in morgues or in ICU? We have been told many times by Whitty that for the majority of the population Covid will be a mild illness. Why has this narrative suddenly changed?

'Oh seriously get a grip. We have lost all perspective of what is a good age to reach. Of celebrating a life well lived'

No one has lost perspective, this isn't about a good age to reach it is about older people perhaps requiring a hospital bed unless euthanasia is your thing? And about the 50, 60 and 70 year olds requiring critical care. Do keep up.

@PracticingPerson

Oh please not this again.

We will be locked down until the indicators are better. We will lift the restrictions slowly, more slowly than last year because we fucked it up last year. Probably still not as slowly as we should. If things go our way the unlocking will be smooth. If things don't go our way we will have to lock down again.

What more do people really think can be said? It isn't a conspiracy, a plot, a story, a plan, a hoax. It is just shit and we (humans as a whole) are not in control of when this ends. We may be able to gain control at some point, but right now, we are not in control.

Thank you for this. I read these threads and I think I'm going mad sometimes.

[quote gypsywater]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind
Says the drivel poster of the thread...a bit rich but OK[/quote]
Lol oh just me now? You do you anyway, stay locked down forever if it makes you feel safe. It's quite clear that a lot of us feel that once the over 50s are vaccinated, we won't be putting our lives on hold.

@RosieLemonade I agree completely, if it can't cope once the over 50s are vaccinated it's beyond repair.

I find this thread quite frightening. In essence it appears that a number of posters are happy to see people die if they can "return to normal". Moreover, it matters less that the people most at risks are elderly and that they do not know any of them personally. I am very glad you are not setting policy.

@Brainwave89 people die all the time. We can't put the whole country on hold indefinitely for the minority who might die from it. Once the older population has been vaccinated the risk will still be there for some younger people but the risk is not high enough to bring life to a halt any longer

people are fed up and will rebel

Terrifying. Rebel against what? Are we children? Scientists stand in front of tv cameras every second or third day to try to explain that the higher the rates of Covid, the greater the inability of the NHS to treat non-Covid sufferers who need treatment. The higher the rates of Covid, the greater the likelihood of emergence of new mutations. What happens if one of the new mutations is deadly to the younger generations? Why would we even risk this happening when we have an opportunity to play a part in stoppng it?

@Brainwave89

I find this thread quite frightening. In essence it appears that a number of posters are happy to see people die if they can "return to normal". Moreover, it matters less that the people most at risks are elderly and that they do not know any of them personally. I am very glad you are not setting policy.

No one wants anyone to die and the elderly will be much less likely to for once they have been vaccinated as they already are being in large numbers

Ultimately “normal” is what pays for the sainted NHS so without that where will we be?

@PatriciaHolm

I think back to what people must have suffered during the blitz and the stoic reaction to this.

Said by someone who knows nothing about the reaction to the restrictions caused by the Blitz. There was an awful lot of kickback about, for example, the blackout requirements. Looting became a huge problem, and a lot of the children first evacuated in 1939 actually returned home by Christmas because people couldn't see the need, plus they were homesick and missing their friends...People were not all sitting stoically in their homes in the dark "doing their bit".

Someone tried to tell me that you are more likely to get killed by a bus than die of COVID. Again - really?

Statistically, possible, for many people, given the very skewed age profile of those who have died from Covid. Around 1,800 people die a year on the roads; there have been approx. 1,600 deaths from covid of those under 50 S(Source - ONS). So yes, if you are under 50, it is more likely you will die in a road accident.

Also, during WWII crime overall increased by over 60%, particularly murder and burglary, as well as what you've mentioned.

The propoganda was there to try and keep society from descending into chaos. Unfortunately it seems to be the part many people today believe was the reality.

Folk were no more likely to be dealing with it any better than we're dealing with this.