So, what are you going to do?

[LaMarschallin]

To the people who are saying they won't stand this any longer:

What exactly do you plan to do?

March on the streets?

Run out of your house and hug your family?

Not wear masks?

Because you can't go to the cinema, theatre, festivals, shops, libraries, cafes, pubs, send your children to school, see beauticians etc without the government's say so.

I'm just interested to know what the alternative is to trying to keep the infection rate down is.

Igglepigglepeppaandgeorge

You're a sweetie

And I didn't really have an agenda of how I wanted this to go; I just genuinely don't understand the "I won't take it anymore" people and I don't know what they expect.
Seriously, there's nothing they can do about ultimately apart from visiting their family and friends.

Which is nice, but will just prolong things.

The small scale rule breaking that is going on will be the reason why this goes on and on and on. If every single person decides to do that then of course it will lead to increased spread. Increased spread means increased hospital pressure which means lockdowns to keep on top of things and ensure your 3 year old gets a bed in hospital/ICU when they fall on the patio and end up with a serious head injury !
The Virus doesn't spread itself, We spread it !

Yeees... so two families, all parents wfh, kids not in childcare, seeing only one another in a private garden once a week... risk wise, as compared to, say, public transport, shopping, "work from home if you can" etc, seems an unlikely way of spreading the virus. And my 3yo may get a serious head injury from tripping on a rock on her 1000th solitary walk to the local park, so that's neither here nor there imo.

Visit elderly family. Visit friends with limited life expectancy. I'm happy to sit in the garden. It will probably be illegal for me to cross local boundaries let alone go into England. But I'll be trying this spring. No point waiting til people are in hospital when I'd be likely banned from visiting them anyway.

(Let alone when you compare a few kids together in a private garden or even home with, say, EOTHO or the, until recently, total absence of restrictions on international travellers and their movements.)

@LaMarschallin what did you actually want from this thread?

From around april I hope to;

Sit in my friends house and have a coffee.

Go to my MILs. She is currently bubbled with my SIL for childcare.

Travel about 50 miles so my sister can meet my (now) 3 month old.

Meet friends out in the park (me and DH with two kids meet another couple and their 2 kids).

Have a picnic with my NCT friends when the weather gets better, or have a friend in my back garden for a picnic with the toddlers.

Go to the shops for chocolate. Galaxy chocolate. When I may have other chocolate in the cupboard and its definitely not essential. Rebel.

@EssentialHummus

*The small scale rule breaking that is going on will be the reason why this goes on and on and on. If every single person decides to do that then of course it will lead to increased spread. Increased spread means increased hospital pressure which means lockdowns to keep on top of things and ensure your 3 year old gets a bed in hospital/ICU when they fall on the patio and end up with a serious head injury ! The Virus doesn't spread itself, We spread it !*

Yeees... so two families, all parents wfh, kids not in childcare, seeing only one another in a private garden once a week... risk wise, as compared to, say, public transport, shopping, "work from home if you can" etc, seems an unlikely way of spreading the virus. And my 3yo may get a serious head injury from tripping on a rock on her 1000th solitary walk to the local park, so that's neither here nor there imo.

because the thing is a lot of these '2 families meeting up' aren't only seeing each other are they? and they are still going grocery shopping i presume and other small scale rule breaking no doubt. I know loads of small scale rule breakers....they are all doing multiple tiny rule breaks, which all add up and make the extended circle of contact bigger

@gallbladderpain there are very few properly vulnerable children who won’t be having the vaccine yet. There are only 1.2 million CEV out of our 67million population and the majority are adults. Older CEV children are getting the vaccine now. We can’t be kept locked down/isolated from others for a very small amount of CEV children. We haven’t for all other illnesses that some children are vulnerable to so why now? Ok I’ll change my wording. By May, a huge percentage of our population will have been vaccinated, including the majority of the vulnerable people, and so there will be no need for any restrictions.

If you all start mixing, can you get your kids to follow the rules in school at least? It's a right pita when you have huge swathes of kids missing cos bubbles are bursting left right and centre due to their fulfilling social lives.

What time table are people talking about here ? Do you not think that things will start opening up again in the Spring? I can't see why people think that's not going to happen

The only rule I've broken is going for a socially distanced walk with a friend and her primary school child.

If DP's elderly, ill grandmother lived in the UK, I'm sure we'd have broken rules to see her by now. It seems unlikely that we'll ever get to see her again.

Last year I would have totally agreed with the idea that we all need to follow the rules to get this over with. For a long time I more than followed the rules, waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel. Now I feel like restrictions are likely to last so long anyway (due to spread in workplaces, hospitals, care homes that people are at perfectly legally) that individuals breaking the rules in small ways aren't having a massive impact.

because the thing is a lot of these '2 families meeting up' aren't only seeing each other are they? and they are still going grocery shopping i presume and other small scale rule breaking no doubt. I know loads of small scale rule breakers....they are all doing multiple tiny rule breaks, which all add up and make the extended circle of contact bigger

Ah, so it's not the thing itself but the other stuff they are presumed to be doing.

Not in my case or the case of the other family in question, but I can't speak for others. I'm a law-abiding person generally, I get home deliveries of food, don't go out beyond what's needed, don't use public transport, don't even lean too heavily on Amazon or takeaways. This rule-break I stand by though.

I don’t live near any family I’m looking forward to seeing them just spending time with my sisters & nieces/nephews. We’ve always been a close family it’s been very hard not spending time with them - nothing fancy just to sit and chat.
We’ve all followed & respected guidance and will continue but a little hope of a timeline would give me something to hope for :(
For my older daughter to finally pass her driving test been moved 3 times already :( & for her to experience being 17/18 and the freedoms that come with it (& mistakes to learn from!)
& my younger daughter to have social interaction face to face.
Who knows when that will happen!!

Thanks! If you really want to understand, I will try and explain. It's been nearly a year. Not seeing friends and family. No income. No work. No school. No hope of things getting better. I have NOTHING left to give. NOTHING. If someone is kind enough to sit and chat with me and take my mind off the fact that death would be a welcome release then there is no mumsnet post that would make me turn that invitation down. Is that clearer?

@shinynewapple21

What time table are people talking about here ? Do you not think that things will start opening up again in the Spring? I can't see why people think that's not going to happen

They will open the shops and pubs for economy reasons, but the last thing to be relaxed will be social interactions, when it's the main thing that people want. I doubt we will be able to socialise any different from the way things are now by April-ish time. But, we can go spend money in River Island.

[quote Cloudsurfing]@gallbladderpain there are very few properly vulnerable children who won’t be having the vaccine yet. There are only 1.2 million CEV out of our 67million population and the majority are adults. Older CEV children are getting the vaccine now. We can’t be kept locked down/isolated from others for a very small amount of CEV children. We haven’t for all other illnesses that some children are vulnerable to so why now? Ok I’ll change my wording. By May, a huge percentage of our population will have been vaccinated, including the majority of the vulnerable people, and so there will be no need for any restrictions.[/quote]
so yeh fuck them pretty much, as long as your child is fine and 'healthy' ? so we can all get back to normal just throw them under the bus, they have 'underlying health conditions anyways so what does it matter about them'

How would you feel if if was personally your child that you were being asked to sacrifice or keep locked up so that everyone else can have a normal life ?

These vunerable people have a right to life as well as everyone else has a right to freedom. We can't remove their right to life to give everyone else freedom

@EssentialHummus

*The small scale rule breaking that is going on will be the reason why this goes on and on and on. If every single person decides to do that then of course it will lead to increased spread. Increased spread means increased hospital pressure which means lockdowns to keep on top of things and ensure your 3 year old gets a bed in hospital/ICU when they fall on the patio and end up with a serious head injury ! The Virus doesn't spread itself, We spread it !*

Yeees... so two families, all parents wfh, kids not in childcare, seeing only one another in a private garden once a week... risk wise, as compared to, say, public transport, shopping, "work from home if you can" etc, seems an unlikely way of spreading the virus. And my 3yo may get a serious head injury from tripping on a rock on her 1000th solitary walk to the local park, so that's neither here nor there imo.

It's all about breaking the "chains of infection". The people who are "small scale" rule breaking are mixing with others doing exactly the same, so the "chain of infection" is getting longer. If a person breaks a rule once, they'll almost certainly be breaking other rules too, and so it goes on, and on. Yes, chances are that they don't catch covid, but equally, there are statistics showing that a single infectious person can pass covid onto 20-30 others via their long chain of infection. The "R" rate of 1 doesn't mean every infectious person passes it to just one other - it's an average, so it could be that out of 20 people, one person has passed it to 20 others if they're in a long chain of infection - i.e. a "super spreader" scenario, the other 19 have followed the rules and not passed it to anyone else.

@LaMarschallin you keep saying you don’t understand but so many on here have told you they don’t care about doing those other things if they can see family. Surely you understand that?

RosieLemonade

LaMarschallin what did you actually want from this thread?

Riches, success, beauty, ever-lasting youth and Richard Osman.

Apart from that...

I don't know. What does anyone want from a thread?

I suppose some understanding of what people actually mean when they say things like "I won't stand this anymore!".

I'm not enjoying it; I have a life, family, friends etc and I look forward to that coming back.

But I understand I have to obey the law.
The life I enjoyed would encompass things sanctioned by the law.

Where would civil unrest get me?

Might change the government but doesn't mean much to a virus.

I could keep infection levels ticking over nicely by regular visits to family and friends.

I know what people want, I think.

I don't know how they think they'll get it.

Visiting more may equal stricter penalties, for example.

Hate to say it @gallbladderpain but kids are being locked away. My toddler hasnt interacted with another child in god knows how long. She is scared of other kids now and cries if anyone speaks to her. She has been locked away for half her life. My 3 month old hasnt seen anyone except me and DH. She hasnt been indoors anywhere except my house and the GP for jabs. This idea that they have to be indefinitely locked away because kids who are CEV have to be locked away doesnt make sense. Thats essentially raising an entire generation of kids who cant function. Its incredibly damaging and unnecessary.

@gallbladderpain even if we all stay at home for ever, we can't eradicate covid. Even if all the mentally ill people kill themselves instead of breaking lockdown, covid will still be there. My heart goes out to you, but you are angry at the wrong people. I'm happy for my kids to play with cev kids if their parents are happy to take the risk, noone is forcing you to lock up your child. Stay safe x

[quote Cloudsurfing]@gallbladderpain there are very few properly vulnerable children who won’t be having the vaccine yet. There are only 1.2 million CEV out of our 67million population and the majority are adults. Older CEV children are getting the vaccine now. We can’t be kept locked down/isolated from others for a very small amount of CEV children. We haven’t for all other illnesses that some children are vulnerable to so why now? Ok I’ll change my wording. By May, a huge percentage of our population will have been vaccinated, including the majority of the vulnerable people, and so there will be no need for any restrictions.[/quote]
Of course there'll be a need for some restrictions. Lots of people, including some ECV's can't have the vaccine for medical reasons. Children aren't having the vaccine. None of the vaccines are 100% effective. Unless we close the borders, there'll be infectious people coming into the country. Some adults will refuse the vaccine.

It's the extend of restrictions that no one yet knows. If infection rates, hospital admissions and deaths are down to low levels (like they were last Summer), then plenty of things will be allowed and opened up (with precautions in place). Only the activities perceived most at risk will remain closed or with stricter restrictions.

To say there'll be "no need for any restrictions" is frankly bonkers. However, the hope has to be that restrictions will be greatly reduced to allow us to have a more normal Summer and beyond (Note I say "more" normal and not normal).

There is vunerable children out there who cannot be vaccinated atm although i see today the word is there may be a vaccine for children by the end of the year there’re millions of children vulnerable because of a lack of education, social interaction, a huge increase in self harm and depression amongst youngsters- I know all we care about is covid but there is a knock of effect. As for a vaccine, my children will not take a vaccine for something that is unlikely to hurt them. Inject me all you like but not my child, and I know most parents agree with this.

@gallbladderpain did you think that before covid, for all the children who are vulnerable to other illnesses? As I said, the country can’t stop for a very, very small percentage of people. It never has before and it’s pretty hypocritical of people to say that it needs to now covid is here, and it’s their child being affected, when they didn’t care about someone else’s child being vulnerable to something else before covid. We have locked down to protect the NHS. Once the majority of vulnerable are vaccinated it will no longer be in danger and there is no need for restrictions.

I’m seeing family and friends now

I’m in work as are they and I simply won’t live my life on a work/home/repeat mode

That’s not living

My two mates just came round for coffee

First time one has been indoors with another household at all since March

The last couple of weeks more and more people are handing out social invites