WHO report: covid likely not from Wuhan

[PicsInRed]

Covid not from Wuhan, not there before December 2019 and may even have been imported into Wuhan/China in frozen food.

Definitely, 100% not from a lab but may have mutated bit by bit and crossed different animals and borders whilst doing so in order to reach the current covid we know and love.

So there ya go.

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55996728

We don't really need to learn that very close relationships between different species can lead to
We also don't need to learn that any new pathogen or disease should be treated seriously, and openly.

That is not to say that China doesn't need to learn that, but no country is going to force them to.
They are too big and too powerful, economically.
Who is going to stop trading with China?

I'm not a scientist, but believing anything else is frankly fanciful.
Sigh.
You know better than scientists, then? Even though you're not one. Interesting.
Presumably you also believe that all life on Earth was created by God, as anything else is fanciful. How could such diversity even occur?
Drug resistant bacterial strains all lab?

if they insist on endangering the rest of the world we'll just have to...errr....ummm... keep them on the naughty step I suppose

The thing is... they endangered themselves, primarily. But also managed to sort it out, so far, a lot better than most other countries.

We were lucky in that we had pre-warning that the disease was coming. They had to identify it in the first place.
And yet, we were the ones who fucked up the most.

@Lweji

if they insist on endangering the rest of the world we'll just have to...errr....ummm... keep them on the naughty step I suppose

The thing is... they endangered themselves, primarily. But also managed to sort it out, so far, a lot better than most other countries.

We were lucky in that we had pre-warning that the disease was coming. They had to identify it in the first place.
And yet, we were the ones who fucked up the most.

With the WHO advising to not close borders and asymptomatic transmission so high do you think it was possible to contain? Or would border closure have been necessary.

For the West anyway. Some Asian countries did do better without it.

We were lucky that we had prewarning- yet our government took no thought to close our borders or invest in PPE in advance of it's peak.

Chinese people in this country have received blame and abuse for this virus, which is unfair. When the government has allowed people all over the world to fly here unrestrained - and not forced any of them to quarantine, how can anyone know for certain? My friends who were on an Asian cruise in December 2019 saw lots of body bags being taken off the ship. People were forced to stay in their cabins and even the Dr's that had to fly onto the ship didn't know what they were dealing with. It was not Noro.

Whoever brought it here, we do not know but we do know it's been here at least since December 2019. I've got friends who had breathing problems at that time, which could not be explained and one of them is married to a medical professional. They nearly lost her because at the time, no one realised what it was.

If there’s a next time I doubt countries will wait for the WHO to advise on border closure.

LangClegsinSpace : you think chatting about it on mumsnet will prevent something happening like this again? Your time and energy and mental abilities would be better spent doing a thousand other things.
People like us will never know what’s really going on in the world, but if you really truly care and want your voice to be heard to shape the future then you’re going to have to do a lot more than blindly follow rules and talk about big things in little living rooms.
I believe in 2 main world changing topics and I am actively involved in making an impact on a daily basis.
When I say “Who cares? Talking about it is a waste of time”, I stand by that statement. If you think coming up with theory’s and reading garbage in the media is a way of educating yourself then all you’re doing is wasting your time.
This is not meant in a rude way but simply the most accurate truth.
Talking about things is pointless. A waste of time and breath and your life.
Unless you want to get actively involved to shape the future? Which can be messy and sometimes dangerous, and very hard work at times, and most people don’t want to admit that they don’t want to get their hands dirty. So they talk about things, sat on their sofa instead.
Stop going on about Covid. Stop talking about Covid! There are so many desperately important issues in the world right now!
Learn to play the guitar instead and when you’re not doing that fight for woman’s rights and learn about how our planet is dying and what you can do to help!

If only our government "intelligence" had spent more time gathering information on what was happening in Asia, they would not have been responsible for this huge death toll.

Other places have contained Covid, so it's likely that we could have kept a lot more people alive if the English government were open to listen to people who had lived through a pandemic before.

I know 2 people who had what we now know as Covid-19 in November 2019. One was working in Wuhan and came back to the UK to be hospitalised with an unknown virus and is still suffering ongoing after affects. The other sat in a car with someone who'd came back from Wuhan at the end of Oct -v ill in Nov with a virus too. Perhaps coincidence but seems most unlikely. Both in their 40s so didn't die but did infect others.

We don't really need to learn that very close relationships between different species can lead to
We also don't need to learn that any new pathogen or disease should be treated seriously, and openly.

No, this much is common sense but the world is not going to stop farming, hunting, trading livestock or meat any time soon so it would be helpful if we could be a bit more specific about where the biggest immediate risks are.

Also there's a bunch of people who still reckon it escaped from a lab and another bunch of people who reckon it was imported to China on frozen food packaging, as well as an assortment of other really quite strange fringe theories. The more definite information we can get the more we can cut down the noise and focus minds.

@Lweji

if they insist on endangering the rest of the world we'll just have to...errr....ummm... keep them on the naughty step I suppose

The thing is... they endangered themselves, primarily. But also managed to sort it out, so far, a lot better than most other countries.

We were lucky in that we had pre-warning that the disease was coming. They had to identify it in the first place.
And yet, we were the ones who fucked up the most.

China sternly instructed NZ to keep the borders open and there was some serious diplomatic "discussions" in the background before NZ said nope and closed them anyway.

That's the value of China's "pre-warnings".

Kesie that's far too non convoluted. Are you sure they didn't pick it up from frozen food from a different continent entirely?

Surely it’s not an either or situation. The WHO shouldn’t be parroting CCP propaganda, how can people trust them? That’s a worry for me. The fact it started in China and they clearly tried to cover it up at the beginning doesn’t take anything away from the fact that the U.K. government knew they were very ill prepared for a pandemic and failed to do anything about it. That was just the start of a massive list of errors, as we all know.

@lljkk

One thing I only realised recently is how scientists hear things, and how Jo Public hears things. Comes down to how uncertainty is heard.

Scientist says: "We don't know if masks wear the wearer"
Scientists hear: "We don't have proof whether masks wear the wearer"
Jo Public hears: "Masks don't protect the wearer"

Scientist says: "We don't know if the vaccine stops transmission."
Scientists hear "We don't have proof that the vaccine stops transmission."
Jo Public hears "The vaccine doesn't stop transmission"

Scientist says: "We can't say that the virus didn't come from outside China"
Scientists hear "We don't have irrefutable proof that the virus came from inside China"
Jo Public hears (the Scientist lying to say) "The virus didn't come from China"

This! And these subtleties in language are how you can quite often tell who on threads has a scientific background

How do we know scientists were killed

I don't trust the WHO.

I don't know about scientists being killed, but there was one that escaped to America. I have forgotten her name, but remember reading that the Chinese government made her a non person by removing her bank accounts and all online presence so she could not bank or contact anyone.

She was the one saying that the virus was man made- and she ended up fleeing China. Social media were marking her posts as "bullying" . Bullying of who, I wonder. China?!!

but it is definitely from China

It is definitely from ASIA but not necessarily China. The cruise ship was doing a tour of Asia.

but it is definitely from China

No I am sticking with the Iceland theory

The beauty of the frozen theory is it expands the possibilities for deflection worldwide.

It probably Is from China though because friends in Thailand and Singapore said very good things about the way they dealt with it there.

I don't think we will ever get to the bottom of what really happened. think people want to believe it came from a lab because that would make it possible to prevent similar happening in the future. The idea that this is a natural event makes it uncontrollable and therefore scary.

I do believe however that China have fought very hard to cover up any responsibility for what has gone on. I think COVID-19 was around earlier than has ever been acknowledged and I believe it was in the UK in 2019.

I also think the world needs to question how we handle China. The atrocities that are going on there right now need to be stopped somehow but god knows how. It's frightening what they are capable of and I suspect what we know is just the tip of the iceberg.

@LetItGoGo

The beauty of the frozen theory is it expands the possibilities for deflection worldwide.

I know but what a theory. Particularly because most frozen food is the cooked at high temperatures

Also I never new Iceland had branches in every country of the world

I have 2 main reasons for believing that Covid19 was taken to Wuhan: 1) the UK hospital who treated my uncle in late November last year (2019) have in retrospect decided it was Covid19
2) I remember reading about some sewage samples being examined in Italy that dated back to January 2020, which proved that traces of Covid19 were already present in western Europe, it just hadn't yet hit the news before the Wuhan facility identified it.

pretends to be shocked at the fact the WHO are also dodgy af