WHO report: covid likely not from Wuhan

[PicsInRed]

Covid not from Wuhan, not there before December 2019 and may even have been imported into Wuhan/China in frozen food.

Definitely, 100% not from a lab but may have mutated bit by bit and crossed different animals and borders whilst doing so in order to reach the current covid we know and love.

So there ya go.

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55996728

@CrackOpenTheGin

I will always believe it came from that lab. What are the chances of a pandemic starting close to a virus institute and all those scientists were killed to keep something quiet.

Yes what’s it called Occam’s razor or something ?

You can’t have any sort of meaningful investigation in a country that opposes free speech and promotes censorship.
It's very much like MN in that respect.

I struggle to see why it really matters where it originated
I agree that no country can risk starting a conversation about reparations however, if this virus was cultured in a lab... cultivated so that it had properties which it would never acquire 'naturally' (i.e. without human intervention) is that not a significant fact??

@Regulus

Also this virus is intelligent its behaving in a way to suggest some man made intervention or modification

Please tell me this is meant to be a joke?

I actually did think this. It seems quick to make huge leaps in mutations I had read that new variants had many more mutations than expected ?

I struggle to see why it really matters where it originated

I think we should see if there’s any learnings. Was it market conditions? Etc

Could learnings from SARS have helped if changes were made on back of it

I agree that no country can risk starting a conversation about reparations however, if this virus was cultured in a lab... cultivated so that it had properties which it would never acquire 'naturally' (i.e. without human intervention) is that not a significant fact??

Perhaps, yes. However it is also the case that we know ongoing climate change/environmental degradation is making us more vulnerable to viruses such as covid-19. If this one is passed off as being man made, will that make the world passive in the face of that very real risk? Is it easier to brush off the growing risk of future pandemics by conceding that this one came from a lab?

I’m not sure - but think that whatever it’s provenance it’s been a wake up call to a threat that the world is going to have to be wise to long after this pandemic is over. Endless blame games and finger pointing doesn’t necessarily help with that.

Perhaps I’m being cynical following the first few responses on this thread

If information is being collected to help inform our response to future pandemics, that is a useful endeavour. If it’s for the public to point fingers and fill in the gaps with xenophobic rhetoric and calls for reparations, then I think it serves no purpose.

@InspirationUnavailable

I agree that no country can risk starting a conversation about reparations however, if this virus was cultured in a lab... cultivated so that it had properties which it would never acquire 'naturally' (i.e. without human intervention) is that not a significant fact??

Perhaps, yes. However it is also the case that we know ongoing climate change/environmental degradation is making us more vulnerable to viruses such as covid-19. If this one is passed off as being man made, will that make the world passive in the face of that very real risk? Is it easier to brush off the growing risk of future pandemics by conceding that this one came from a lab?

I’m not sure - but think that whatever it’s provenance it’s been a wake up call to a threat that the world is going to have to be wise to long after this pandemic is over. Endless blame games and finger pointing doesn’t necessarily help with that.

I don’t think it’s endless blame game etc

But the country of origin does need to be willing to make changes.

We certainly do need to know the provenance of the virus whether ecological circumstances were at play or if it was a lab leak in order to minimise the chance of something similar happening again.

The lab theory is the elephant in the room for me. Any admission this was the case and China could face enormous ramifications, a global public Pandora’s box of questions and blame that would essentially ruin the CCP and end collaboration between the world and China in scientific research.

Some truths will never be told because we simply can not handle them.

I don't know if we would ever find out exactly where it came from and not due to cover up necessarily just because it will hard to prove 100% exactly how and when etc

It was known as Spanish Flu because Spain was pretty much the only country honestly reporting on the pandemic due to their neutrality in the war. The Allies were surpressing reporting due to the war effort. So there was an incorrect perception at the time that it was concentrated in Spain.

Any admission this was the case and China could face enormous ramifications
I agree, 'they' will do everything they can to steer away from the conclusion that the virus was cultured in a lab in China

WHO report: covid likely not from Wuhan

This is completely correct. In fact it came from MY ARSE.

@onlytuesday

Late Dec2019/early Jan 2020 I had a virus which ticked all the boxes for Covid; fever, cough, shortness of breath, loss of taste. I'm in my 30s and healthy, I have never known anything like it. I have the flu jab every year due to working in healthcare so it wasn't flu. It took me 6 weeks to fully get over it, during that time I was short of breath. GP diagnosed chest infection which and gave me antibiotics which didn't help. Now it could have just been a virus, but I know of several other people who had the same thing at the same time, who like me never had a problem with respiratory illnesses in the past. My theory is that Covid was already circulating globally at that time but in a less contagious form. It then mutated in Wuhan to become more contagious and that's when the pandemic started. I believe there was a case in France (I think?), identified in November 19 which adds weight to the case

This ^^

It matters because prevention is better than cure, the world needs reassuring that steps have been/will be taken to reduce the chances of this happening again in the next few years. Whether that be improving safety measures in Labs, not selling fresh and dead meat together in unhygienic surroundings (or even changing frozen food packaging ). Some sort of acknowledgement would be a start but unfortunately that's not how CCP work so we will see a repeat of this in next few years.

Reparations from country of original source then definitely yes if shoddy practices were to blame. The western world's economies are down the toilet and we and our children will be paying for this for years to come.

This is completely correct. In fact it came from MY ARSE.
🤣

This is all a combined diplomatic mission for a pre selected conducive group of international scientists to play out a staged “investigation” about likely (not conclusive!) cause and origin. It is designed to mitigate fault and potential liability for damages. Therefore the report is intentionally inconclusive and is immaterial long after all the original evidence has been eliminated deliberately and over time.

In conclusion there is no conclusion other than a joint shared made up report held in mainland China under local information laws etc. If it is a joint report and not an independent WHO report as this is significantly different. If the report is announced in a jurisdiction with freedom of information and speech it will again be possibly very different and perhaps factual.

I work in a scientific field. A lot of my time is spent translating technical stuff for a non specialist audience.

This thread so clearly shows how the way information as presented can easily (in some cases wilfully) be misconstrued.

This is why Prof Van Tam is so awesome. He has a real skill for getting key points across in a way that is as clear and unambiguous as possible.

I haven’t looked into it but we probably introduced new regulations after BSE

There’s nothing wrong and everything right with understanding origin and acting on information

It was as much for us as other countries to not have it repeated. But the country has to learn and want to change.

My theory is that Covid was already circulating globally at that time but in a less contagious form. It then mutated in Wuhan to become more contagious and that's when the pandemic started. I believe there was a case in France (I think?), identified in November 19 which adds weight to the case

I'm curious. Do you have data to support that theory?

The " we've found it on frozen food packaging from NZ" a few weeks back was sheer genius it turns out..

Isn't there a chance the virus was in the bat caves originally, then escaped from the lab in Wuhan accidentally? Perhaps a scientist caring for infected live bats or examining dead ones got infected and then went shopping in the market?

If we can spend so many trillions on the vaccines and consequences of this pandemic, maybe we could spare a trillion or two to speed up the development of meat alternatives and definitively move on from livestock farming. Such an antiquated and barbaric practice.

What I can’t understand is why governments seem to be going along with what appears to be a ‘show investigation’, when this virus has had such a profound impact worldwide

I'm not sure what choice they had, TBH; they had to be seen to do something and this was probably the best they were going to get with China involved

Even if this was "China's fault" and even if it could be proved, why would happen then? I doubt the face saving regime would want to discuss it at all and they wouldn't exactly appreciate being confronted, so what's left?

What I can’t understand is why governments seem to be going along with what appears to be a ‘show investigation’, when this virus has had such a profound impact worldwide

Presumably, we can't afford for tensions to get too high whilst the West is still in such a weakened state.