WHO report: covid likely not from Wuhan

[PicsInRed]

Covid not from Wuhan, not there before December 2019 and may even have been imported into Wuhan/China in frozen food.

Definitely, 100% not from a lab but may have mutated bit by bit and crossed different animals and borders whilst doing so in order to reach the current covid we know and love.

So there ya go.

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55996728

The problem is that the world has lost confidence in WHO so whether they find and reveal the truth or not, many will doubt them.

Bloody hell. The Mumsnet crazies are out in force today

@itsgettingwierd

Can just about believe it didn't come from a lab.

I don't believe it started somewhere else and just happened to become a pandemic that started in Wuhan.

If that's the case - that it came form elsewhere - surely we'd have seen the illness spreading there first? (Admit I have no idea about that!)

I agree with you.

So the key thing that tells you covid was human-made is the cover up.

that means Spanish flu was human-made, right? Because Spanish flu was definitely covered up. in which case, which lab made Spanish flu? Don't say they didn't have the technology 100 years ago. THEY just want you to think that.

We will never know the truth but I doubt very much it originated outside China.

China's highest priority will always be to save face

One thing I only realised recently is how scientists hear things, and how Jo Public hears things. Comes down to how uncertainty is heard.

Scientist says: "We don't know if masks wear the wearer"
Scientists hear: "We don't have proof whether masks wear the wearer"
Jo Public hears: "Masks don't protect the wearer"

Scientist says: "We don't know if the vaccine stops transmission."
Scientists hear "We don't have proof that the vaccine stops transmission."
Jo Public hears "The vaccine doesn't stop transmission"

Scientist says: "We can't say that the virus didn't come from outside China"
Scientists hear "We don't have irrefutable proof that the virus came from inside China"
Jo Public hears (the Scientist lying to say) "The virus didn't come from China"

@Kdubs1981

Bloody hell. The Mumsnet crazies are out in force today

Lol! I agree!!

Spanish flu didn’t actually start in Spain did it or am I miss remembering.

*protect the wearer... I love no edit option on MN fora

@lljkk

those of you who think it must be from the Wuhan lab * -- do you think that's because the Wuhan is super unusual in the world or the Chinese have unusually bad lab security, or especially nefarious desires to make nasty viruses?

I mean, why Wuhan and why now when it never happened at Harvard or John Hopkins or Norwich GMO labs?

*I ask because I enjoy creative fiction

Mainly because Covid-19 was first identified down the road from one of the 50-odd biosafety level 4 labs in the world. A lab which had previously carried out a lot of research involving coronaviruses...

But Dr Embarek said a visit to the laboratory during the mission showed it was "very unlikely" that anything could have leaked out.
He said the laboratory theory was "not in the hypotheses that we will suggest for future studies".

So still could be Wuhan? Just said unlikely to be lab.
Scanned quickly

If the virus came from outside China, why would it cause an epidemic in China first? What about where they put the packaging on food.

I imagine the Chinese are pretty efficient at producing their own packaged convenience food. I imagine there might be some fancy ports, but doubt much in the way of staples.

@Alwaysandforeverhere

Spanish flu didn’t actually start in Spain did it or am I miss remembering.

It's thought it might have been Mexico but the first outbreak was an army camp in Kansas.

And they only know the type of pandemic is was (H1N1 flu) due to later tests on mummified bodies. They didn't have the genomic sequencing back then to know.

Bottom line there is no definitive answer as to exact original source as it’s been years since this started back in 2019 quarter 2/3 (??).

The circumstantial evidence has been likely intentionally systematically erased over time right from the initial days and confusion when key connected and knowledgeable sources were “mysteriously” silenced!?

This is not a historical retrospective archeological carbon dating exercise as the original crime scenes have long been eradicated and forensic science will never be able to fully recover the true facts!

It is possible that there may have been a number of originating sources including zoonotic as well as man made experimentation leaks. Without conclusive evidence all we have is a nearby lab with known virus experimentation, silenced key local medics and scientists as well as a near by wet market with a petri dish of possibilities. It’s anyone’s guess as evidence is destroyed as now “access (to removed evidence) is granted.”

@lljkk

One thing I only realised recently is how scientists hear things, and how Jo Public hears things. Comes down to how uncertainty is heard.

Scientist says: "We don't know if masks wear the wearer"
Scientists hear: "We don't have proof whether masks wear the wearer"
Jo Public hears: "Masks don't protect the wearer"

Scientist says: "We don't know if the vaccine stops transmission."
Scientists hear "We don't have proof that the vaccine stops transmission."
Jo Public hears "The vaccine doesn't stop transmission"

Scientist says: "We can't say that the virus didn't come from outside China"
Scientists hear "We don't have irrefutable proof that the virus came from inside China"
Jo Public hears (the Scientist lying to say) "The virus didn't come from China"

I had a conversation similar to this earlier about the SA variant.

I explained to my colleague they haven't said it doesn't protect. Just there is no evidence it does protect from mild to moderate illness.

But that could mean it still gives sufficient protection against severe illness and death.
It could also mean that it protects against SA variant but we don't have evidence it does as much as we don't have sufficient evidence either that it doesn't.

How many of you (who are sure Wuhan lab was the source) also think that Porton Down chemical defence & research laboratories must have poisoned their own (unwanted foreign?) locals in an 'accidental release' that nearly killed the Scripals?

I mean, that's a pretty equal size helluva coincidence too.

Coz all we need is coincidence to have enough proof, right?

Porton down did some pretty horrific things didn’t have anything to do with covid 19 though.

Pretty sure the WHO were only given access to existing Chinese investigations, and no independent evidence could be gathered.

It sounds a bit like when the school and pupils know when the Ofsted inspectors are coming..

Really? I don't believe this, like their previous theories.

@lljkk

One thing I only realised recently is how scientists hear things, and how Jo Public hears things. Comes down to how uncertainty is heard.

Scientist says: "We don't know if masks wear the wearer"
Scientists hear: "We don't have proof whether masks wear the wearer"
Jo Public hears: "Masks don't protect the wearer"

Scientist says: "We don't know if the vaccine stops transmission."
Scientists hear "We don't have proof that the vaccine stops transmission."
Jo Public hears "The vaccine doesn't stop transmission"

Scientist says: "We can't say that the virus didn't come from outside China"
Scientists hear "We don't have irrefutable proof that the virus came from inside China"
Jo Public hears (the Scientist lying to say) "The virus didn't come from China"

ah....the one voice of reason on this thread.

I wonder if it did all start with the guys that fell ill in the cave of bats in China. The workers that were clearing up the Bat droppings all got sick. I think it was a new variant that caused enough concern for the Wuhan Laboratory to start looking into it and possibly to start panicking upon the realisation that it was a more highly infectious/unknown strain.

By this point it is too late as it’s all ready been spread by the workers and possibly beyond containment.

I don't believe much out of the WHO. They're likely in China's pocket.

40 amazing coincidences !

Ah, but were they? I bet that Robert Todd Lincoln was a serial president killer actually. Must have been. And Violet Jessop sank 3 cruiser liners -- mischievous woman.

@Alwaysandforeverhere

Spanish flu didn’t actually start in Spain did it or am I miss remembering.

It was supposed to have started in the US, sick soldier got on a boat to europe, lots of others infected. I wonder how the US got everyone to say it was Spanish flu?