Covid deniers are scumbags

[BlueFlyAway]

I was reading a thread here on mumsnet that made me cry so much and it hammered home just how serious the virus is. Young people seriously sick in hospital and dying. It's bad at any age and I lost a second cousin before her time due to covid but its particularly bad when it's hitting younger people.

The virus never came directly to my door but I know it's real. I am hating the restrictions and the lockdown so much but I'm following the public health rules all the same but I am finding it hard but I don't intentions of breaking the rules.

People who play this virus down as if it's nothing - covid deniers - they are scumbags. I know the virus can be mild for some people but it's not for everyone.

[quote stilllovingmysleep]@TooManyPlatesInMotion see my post above about the mental health issues that are actually on the increase during lockdown

To my knowledge drug and alcohol abuse are not on the increase during lockdown, nor is child abuse

Allowing a virus run rampant through society in fact affects everything else negatively so there's all the more reason to push for very low numbers and then reopen properly

Lockdown is not easy and has its own side effects, but not the ones you cited [/quote]
@stilllovingmysleep incorrect, unfortunately, according to the Children's Commissioner, research conducted by the Uni of Bristol and a panel of child protection experts who have written to the gov on the issues (social workers, doctors, psychologists).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-55352968

@stilllovingmysleep during the first lockdown studies showed that certain groups of people were drinking more alcohol. Whether this is "alcohol abuse" or not may depend on your interpretation as these were social science studies.

Many posters who are talking about the negative effects of lockdown are perhaps not talking about right now. We will not see the true effects until lockdown is lifted and feel the full force of unemployment, debt and fractured relationship.

@Waxonwaxoff0

I disagree.

I'm not a Covid denier, I know it exists but on a personal level I'm not scared. I go by logic and statistics. I'm at an absolutely miniscule risk from Covid. I do follow the rules to protect other people but if someone told me I could go back to normal tomorrow I would. If that makes me a "scumbag" I'll take it.

Those of us taking more care & who are worried about getting it, also go by logic & statistics. Could you please stop implying we're as thick as mince if we are more cautious than you are.

Obviously only the headline, but it is pretty clear that alcohol related deaths are up.

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n317.full

@Jane10000000

I saw one last week, he was on oxygen and couldn’t even speak full sentences. But, constantly on his phone texting and reassuring his friends that he is fine. His wife was sitting beside him in full PPE and crying. It’s all so sad and heartbreaking.

Christ on a bike, that's some level of denial.

@BoKatan

I'm not a Covid denier. I know people who have died / been left with long Covid who were previously fit and well.

I'm not anti lockdown. I get that it's the only way.

Buuuuuut, I'm seriously fed up with the attitude on here from a set of posters who seem to tarnish anyone who raises concerns about the effects of lockdown as "granny killers" and "Covid deniers."

Lockdown is killing people. There's no getting away from that. It will continue to kill people long after Covid has just become another endemic cold because of the damage done to the economy and missed diagnosis.

But apparently the world is black and white now so we're not allowed to talk about it

I'm not denying there are other things going on, but tell me how you think they would be improved if we didn't lockdown? Hospitals over run with Covid patients isn't going to get cancer treatment/A&E or anything else up & running is it?

Covid is causing ALL of these things. Until the vaccinations create some kind of herd immunity lockdown is out only way of controlling the virus.

Lockdown is not the killer here, it's Covid - directly or indirectly.

My main point is what @WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants said. The main problem we have is that we are in a pandemic. For any society that's always going to be a hugely traumatic time

It is not the lockdowns that are causing these issues, hard as the lockdowns are. It is the combination of Covid plus the lack of an effective response to it, leading us to repeated cycles of lockdown

Those who claim abuse and neglect are up: why do you think?
I think that there is increased tension in families at the moment due to financial problems (amongst other things). Inequality is exacerbated the more Covid continues. It would be even more exacerbated if we didn't have lockdown as Covid is shown to unequally hit the poorer in our society. Leading to tensions, neglect, and of course grief related problems

@ChocOrange1

I was just answering your question of how lockdowns cause deaths. A lockdown is not a benign choice. Are deaths caused by covid, worse or more important than deaths caused by lockdown? I would say not- they're just harder to measure.

Honestly, how much more clearly do you need it explained??

IF we didn't lockdown, deaths from ALL causes would be far worse. ALL the hospital would be over run by people dying from Covid. Do you seriously think that a) doctors will walk past them to treat someone with a condition less likely to die in the next couple of hours & would you want them to? B) do you seriously think it's safe to schedule operations in hospitals crawling with Covid?

Covid is causing this, not lockdown.

@stilllovingmysleep

My main point is what *@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants* said. The main problem we have is that we are in a pandemic. For any society that's always going to be a hugely traumatic time

It is not the lockdowns that are causing these issues, hard as the lockdowns are. It is the combination of Covid plus the lack of an effective response to it, leading us to repeated cycles of lockdown

Those who claim abuse and neglect are up: why do you think?
I think that there is increased tension in families at the moment due to financial problems (amongst other things). Inequality is exacerbated the more Covid continues. It would be even more exacerbated if we didn't have lockdown as Covid is shown to unequally hit the poorer in our society. Leading to tensions, neglect, and of course grief related problems

‘Claim’ interesting choice of word there..

A loved one of mine was dying from terminal cancer, he caught covid two days before he died and his death certificate says covid. Lies. He died of cancer. And this isn't an isolated incident.

@AfternoonToffee
Oh sweet as then. 0 Covid deaths according to your logic.

Ok everyone, no need to worry.

The lockdown harm deniers are as delusional as the covid deniers. The “oh my kids are loving lockdown” and we’re ok Jack type evidenced by some posters below. It’s delusional to deny isolation and massive economic turmoil are not going to harm people and cause increase in more mental health, challenges, alcohol abuse, child abuse. And it’s crazy to say people are just sad because they’re grieving their granny. Many people in this country have lost no one to covid but are struggling with the impacts of lockdown.

@AfternoonToffee

Many posters who are talking about the negative effects of lockdown are perhaps not talking about right now. We will not see the true effects until lockdown is lifted and feel the full force of unemployment, debt and fractured relationship.

This!!

The effects of lockdown are going to be felt for many years.

If we hadn't locked down too many people would be sick at once and the whole infrastructure of the Country would break down.
Yes the NHS would be overwhelmed but we also need to keep food on the supermarket shelves, we need to keep the power stations manned and the lights on!
I know lots of people in jobs like the Royal Mail, they are short staffed as it is, people sick with COVID, people isolating, long COVID, compassionate leave because they have lost a wife to COVID. Some schools were closed before Christmas because too many teachers were off sick, if you just let it run the whole Country would collapse.
Lockdown is awful and causes a lot of deaths and damage but not as much as not locking down.

Completely agree with you it makes my blood boil. My best friend died a week before Christmas from Covid, she caught it at work- working in a hospital, within a week her dad was dead her husband had it and she was dead within a fortnight.

Increasingly more and more people have got it who you know. Some might be lucky and it's like a terrible case of the flu, others not so much.

These rules are there to protect us all. Yes they are an absolute pain, restrictive and long lasting. But it's essential as the alternative is mass death and destruction!

Put on a bloody mask, keep your distance and put others first instead of yourself- should be the phrase now!

And don't get me started on conspiracy theorists- so many studies including one from Oxford concluded that conspiracy theorist are bad thinkers- reject logical, don't listen to reasoned arguments, can't balance their view and often reject expert advice because they don't fully understand it.

@Mif4

I wouldn't call them scumbags. All deaths are sad. Because people are dying of a respiratory virus they seem more important now. Long covid on healthy young people. What about the millions of missed cancer diagnosis, suicides and life saving treatment to save those who don't have covid being denied.

There are primary aged children going to hospital from self harm. Teenage suicide rates are now common.

Whether covid exists or not, the whole thing has been dealt with appallingly. We will have many many more unrelated covid deaths than to those with covid on their death certificate.

@Mif4 those people with other illnesses are not "being denied". The hospitals fill up with Covid and doctors don't have any more space.

You talk as if doctors arbitrarily decide to "choose" Covid over cancer, which of course they don't

Lower covid means that all the things you mention improve as well

@buffyp suicide rates have not increased actually. I work in an NHS service where we focus on suicide and that is a lie peddled around

I'm not saying people are not struggling. Of course they are, it's a pandemic. But suicides have not gone up. In fact what we are seeing more than anything else is grief grief grief from bereaved families and many ill people

This is an absolute lie! I’m appalled and I’m currently no my working due to meeting other needs but do work in mental and so do my colleagues and good friends.London ambulance reported increase in suicide and suicide attempts. Also the phone calls of people not seeing way out. Tip of the ice berg of lockdown continues. Pretty irresponsible of you to outright lie about the increase.

We need perspective Covid exists but so does life and many other illnesses and dangerous diseases. The government has. Failed big time in the U.K.

So people have posted links which debunk @stilllovingmysleep bullshit claims about child abuse and alcohol deaths not increasing during lockdown. Suicide stats for last year are still not confirmed as it takes months to get coroner reports so numbers for last year are still to be published.

Of course covid deniers should be challenged however people denying the real effects of lockdown are just as blinkered.

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

I have said above and will say again; there are many problems due to lockdown. I have even describe what we have seen in our service. I have been following these stats each month and what i say is not a "bullshit claim" or lie. I believe there might be an increase in the future but so far we have seen different problems becoming prevalent, not suicide attempts

You can read the BMJ article above for evidence

I am not saying all this to annoy anyone nor to deny the real problems of the situation we are in. Just to explain what the actual evidence on the ground is. I work for many years in a service with exactly this focus.

I would like to add something that I wrote before. My worry having worked throughout the pandemic in person in a mental health service is what will happen AFTER the end of all this.

Again; not just my personal worry, but sharing what I see and hear and learn from those around me too.