Page 2 | Covid deniers are scumbags

BelleSausage · 07/02/2021 08:20

There are selfish morons the world over. Whaddya gonna do? 🤷🏻‍♀️

newlabelwriter · 07/02/2021 08:24

I live in north London and the cases where I live went nuts over Christmas, so many people I know had it, us included. It’s a horrible virus and whilst we survived unscathed friends I know still very unwell from it.

I’m maybe being naive but why would anyone effectively ruin an economy for a hoax (I’ve not read any conspiracy theories so genuinely don’t understand why people would think that.)

stilllovingmysleep · 07/02/2021 08:26

@newlabelwriter it makes no sense. Why would there be such a widespread conspiracy (with everyone in it) to keep people scared?

The sad reality is that it is exactly what it says on the tin. A pandemic. Historically there have always been pandemics and they follow a familiar path. A big part of them, sadly, has always involved conspiratorial claims that are untrue.

I guess it's because people are too scared to face reality

Flaxmeadow · 07/02/2021 08:28

I think it's because some people didn't listen to what was said at the briefings back in March and April, and they could not take on board the magnitude of the crisis and the seriousness of what would happen if we didn't lock down.

Back then we were told, over and over again, that...
"The lockdown is to protect services from being overwhelmed in a short space of time. That there would he no quick solutions and we would have rolling lockdowns lasting at least 18 months. That if we did not lockdown there would be, in a short space of time, half a million deaths and even more people sick off work or extremely sick and requiring medical attention". This is what was said

In some countries, even WITH lockdown, many people died alone in one care home, in another country in hospital doorways and corridors because the hospitals were overwhlemed. This happened in relatively wealthy western countries, not the third world and with no lockdown at all, this would be multiplied on an horrific scale. This is what they simply cannot, or refuse to, comprehend

Tomcullenisahero · 07/02/2021 08:39

I think unless it's touched people personally then many will think it doesn't/won't effect them. This is true though with lots of things in life.
You can't compared it to the likes of cancer as some have done as you can't catch cancer while out shopping, you can with Covid.
My DH was one of the fittest people I knew until he contracted Covid, now he has a lot of debilitating symptoms almost a year on. You really don't know how this illness will take a hold and it doesn't matter if you don't have underlying conditions or are fit as a fiddle.

calmearth · 07/02/2021 08:47

Completely agree OP!! It makes me so so angry! I work in a hospital and I'm finding it increasingly upsetting how nonchalant and dismissive people are. I lost my father to covid, several family friends, several work colleagues have died untimely and several are still suffering the after effects. I have a friend who has terrible neurological issues since having covid and can no longer work as a nurse because she can't even stand up.

A 32 year old man died in our ITU this week. His wife is 6 month pregnant. It is not just the elderly, the infirm or the ones with underlying conditions that are dying.

barbedwired · 07/02/2021 08:48

I know a Covid denier with a bad case of full on conspiracy theorist who is also an antivaxer.
For an uneducated person in this area they are an expert.
I've extricated myself from the relationship as they made a concerted effort to convert me.

nether · 07/02/2021 08:51

I completely agree! It drives me insane when the less vulnerable peoples answer is let us get on with things and leave the vulnerable isolating... what kind of life is that for those in the last years of their lives? Why don't we all just have a bit of compassion and stop being so selfish!

The vulnerable and those in the last years in their lives are not synonyms. There no age criterion in the definitions for CEV and CV and both groups include all ages

ChocOrange1 · 07/02/2021 08:54

*how is lockdown "killing people"?

I hate lockdown, why would I like it. But how is it "killing people"?*

@stilllovingmysleep

people are unable to have routine operations because they are cancelled. Cancer diagnoses nosedive during the first lockdown- not because fewer people had cancer, they just weren't being diagnosed.
people have been too frightened to attend a&e or the GP and have died as a result
people have lost jobs and livelihoods. It is well known that poverty reduces life expectancy
people have taken their own lives due to isolation, job losses and/or lack of mental health support
many people have put on weight during lockdown due to not being able to go to gyms and swimming pools etc.
in the long term, the recession caused by constant lockdowns will also claim more lives due to poverty and reduced funding to public health.

I haven't heard anyone deny that covid exists. I have heard plenty of people deny that lockdowns are detrimental- "all you have to do is stay at home and watch TV". Its so short sighted.

Fembot123 · 07/02/2021 08:55

@Shelovesamystery

When you say covid deniers do you mean people that actually deny that covid exists or people that haven't fallen for the media scaremongering and are able to be rational about covid? Because the latter are not covid denyers.

Precisely this, but why would this poster let fact get in the way of a hysterical rant.

Fembot123 · 07/02/2021 08:57

@calmearth

Completely agree OP!! It makes me so so angry! I work in a hospital and I'm finding it increasingly upsetting how nonchalant and dismissive people are. I lost my father to covid, several family friends, several work colleagues have died untimely and several are still suffering the after effects. I have a friend who has terrible neurological issues since having covid and can no longer work as a nurse because she can't even stand up.

A 32 year old man died in our ITU this week. His wife is 6 month pregnant. It is not just the elderly, the infirm or the ones with underlying conditions that are dying.

Was it ever JUST the elderly and vulnerable?

Moondust001 · 07/02/2021 09:00

People who play this virus down as if it's nothing - covid deniers - they are scumbags. I know the virus can be mild for some people but it's not for everyone.

There are very, very few people who deny that Covid exists. Some - but not many.

As for people who don't agree with you, calling them scumbags is a very mature response. There is as little point in engaging in this kind of rhetoric as there is in discussing why the earth isn't flat. You are doing exactly what you accuse others of - thinking that their way is the only way.

Athinginitself · 07/02/2021 09:03

@ChocOrange1

*how is lockdown "killing people"?

I hate lockdown, why would I like it. But how is it "killing people"?*

@stilllovingmysleep

people are unable to have routine operations because they are cancelled. Cancer diagnoses nosedive during the first lockdown- not because fewer people had cancer, they just weren't being diagnosed.
people have been too frightened to attend a&e or the GP and have died as a result
people have lost jobs and livelihoods. It is well known that poverty reduces life expectancy
people have taken their own lives due to isolation, job losses and/or lack of mental health support
many people have put on weight during lockdown due to not being able to go to gyms and swimming pools etc.
in the long term, the recession caused by constant lockdowns will also claim more lives due to poverty and reduced funding to public health.

I haven't heard anyone deny that covid exists. I have heard plenty of people deny that lockdowns are detrimental- "all you have to do is stay at home and watch TV". Its so short sighted.

A lot of this is true of course. But patients operations or treatments arent cancelled because we are in lockdown, they are cancelled either when there is no capacity in hospitals or when the risks of a treatment eg chemo in the middle of a pandemic and contracting covid outweighs the risk of waiting. If we want people to have normal access to medical care then we need community transmission to be at a manageable level.

stilllovingmysleep · 07/02/2021 09:04

@ChocOrange1

*how is lockdown "killing people"?

I hate lockdown, why would I like it. But how is it "killing people"?*

@stilllovingmysleep

people are unable to have routine operations because they are cancelled. Cancer diagnoses nosedive during the first lockdown- not because fewer people had cancer, they just weren't being diagnosed.
people have been too frightened to attend a&e or the GP and have died as a result
people have lost jobs and livelihoods. It is well known that poverty reduces life expectancy
people have taken their own lives due to isolation, job losses and/or lack of mental health support
many people have put on weight during lockdown due to not being able to go to gyms and swimming pools etc.
in the long term, the recession caused by constant lockdowns will also claim more lives due to poverty and reduced funding to public health.

I haven't heard anyone deny that covid exists. I have heard plenty of people deny that lockdowns are detrimental- "all you have to do is stay at home and watch TV". Its so short sighted.

@ChocOrange1 all the more reason to drive Covid numbers as down as possible

As otherwise all the things you mention simply get worse

How do you propose, for example, cancer patients get prioritised and treated when the NHS is full of patients who can't breathe?

Schoolchoicesucks · 07/02/2021 09:06

Those who deny it exists or the seriousness of it, in the face of excess mortality figures or hospital workers giving harrowing first person accounts are scumbags.

There is no question that the first lockdown, or the current one are necessary. Without then, it would be impossible for people to receive even basic emergency non-covid medical care.

However, repeated lengthy lockdowns have significant adverse consequences. On mental health, the economy, early diagnosis and treatment. Absolutely there will come a(nother) point where balancing the benefits of lockdown will tip in favour of lifting them.

My MIL is in her late 70s with some health conditions. She is against this current lockdown because of the impact she can see it is causing to her grandchildren (school age and university age), the costs of it they will have to bear into the future and the lack of contact she is able to have with family during what could be her last few years.

I disagree with her, for now, but if we were in the same position in another year's time, may well have come around to her way of thinking.

ChocOrange1 · 07/02/2021 09:06

I was just answering your question of how lockdowns cause deaths. A lockdown is not a benign choice. Are deaths caused by covid, worse or more important than deaths caused by lockdown? I would say not- they're just harder to measure.

stilllovingmysleep · 07/02/2021 09:10

@ChocOrange1 what do you propose instead? We are in a pandemic

The only workable other model is early hard interventions along the lines of zero Covid plus quarantines at borders

Other ideas?

It's all well and good to say lockdowns are awful. We all agree. But what's your constructive suggestion instead?

This all reminds me of purple struggling with effects of chemotherapy. Of course it's a hard treatment with side effects. But the real issue is the cancer for which the chemotherapy is done

The lockdown is the equivalent

mouldyhouse101 · 07/02/2021 09:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ChocOrange1 · 07/02/2021 09:15

There is no alternative now, that's why we are stuck in this cycle. If we had done an early hard lockdown and closed borders then we would be in a much better position. I would have been in favour of this, especially with hindsight.

But we haven't done that. The government now have to try and balance the negative effects of covid with the negative effects of lockdown, it's basically a lose-lose situation.

I don't know why you seem to think I'm looking for an argument, I was just answering the question of "how is lockdown killing people".

User7458 · 07/02/2021 09:16

Weird thread title and OP, sort of language that a school child would use

stilllovingmysleep · 07/02/2021 09:17

@ChocOrange1 I absolutely don't think you are looking for an argument. I'm writing down my thoughts

Are you suggesting there are no stricter policies eg border controls that can be taken now?
How about a better test and trace once Covid numbers are way down?
Measures in schools eg rotas?

Why should we completely give up now just because those things didn't happen early on?

Fembot123 · 07/02/2021 09:17

[quote stilllovingmysleep]@ChocOrange1 what do you propose instead? We are in a pandemic

The only workable other model is early hard interventions along the lines of zero Covid plus quarantines at borders

Other ideas?

It's all well and good to say lockdowns are awful. We all agree. But what's your constructive suggestion instead?

This all reminds me of purple struggling with effects of chemotherapy. Of course it's a hard treatment with side effects. But the real issue is the cancer for which the chemotherapy is done

The lockdown is the equivalent [/quote]
Why are you arguing with yourself? You asked a question and this poster answered it now you are looking to argue with statements that aren’t there.

Fembot123 · 07/02/2021 09:19

@User7458

Weird thread title and OP, sort of language that a school child would use

It does lack a certain panache 😂

ChocOrange1 · 07/02/2021 09:22

[quote stilllovingmysleep]@ChocOrange1 I absolutely don't think you are looking for an argument. I'm writing down my thoughts

Are you suggesting there are no stricter policies eg border controls that can be taken now?
How about a better test and trace once Covid numbers are way down?
Measures in schools eg rotas?

Why should we completely give up now just because those things didn't happen early on?[/quote]
I don't think I said anything about border controls, schools or track and trace, positive or negative

Groundhogday21 · 07/02/2021 09:23

I don’t think it’s as clear cut as you’re making out; the world isn’t split into people who are absolutely petrified of the virus and people who don’t believe it exists. I saw the thread about the young, fit bil whose ventilator was turned off, it’s terribly sad. Had it not been for Covid it’s almost certain he would still be alive. I know people who have had it. One was quite bad and still on oxygen daily and probably for the rest of her life, but I also know people who have been fine 2 days later. However, I also have an extended family member who died in December after being sick all last year, but only getting his cancer diagnosis in October. He left behind a young wife and primary aged kids, why should his death be forgotten about? Are his family scumbags for wanting him to get the urgent medical help he needed which was constantly postponed? It’s not just sitting at home watching Netflix for some, it’s getting steadily more sick with no one helping you, or spiralling deeper into depression or into poverty. I think there needs to be compassion all round as follow the rules or not there are always people somewhere suffering.