BAME uptake of vaccination

[randomer]

I am reading that the BAME community is disproporionately affected by Covid and the uptake of offers of vaccines is less than non BAME.

I wonder if its true and also why.

I apologise for the clumsy term "BAME" but I can't think how else to word it.

@oldegg123 Absolutely spot on. So much was being dismissed earlier on in the thread.

I'd largely agree with alreadytaken's recent comments about the NICE vitamin D review in re: treatment and prevention of COVID–19.

GrannyCurls - instead of taking the word of your preferred researchers, I'd advise you to consult the NICE evidence review for yourself and look at the critique of the various studies. Eg, you will see for yourself the way that the Hastie study is appropriately critiqued.

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng187/evidence/evidence-reviews-for-the-use-of-vitamin-d-supplementation-as-prevention-and-treatment-of-covid19-pdf-8957587789

I've taken a quick look and can't see that anybody has challenged the review of the evidence or the scoping for the review.

You will see that the review is due to be updated when relevant or appropriate evidence is available.

For anybody with an interest in the specific topic of vitamin D and COVID–19, I'd recommend Rita Rubin's article as a fine overview:

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2775003

However, this is beyond tangential to the issue of vaccine uptake in various demographics.

But aren't you taking the word of NICE at face value? Why do you think that NICE is picking and choosing? Do you think NICE is unbiased?

As % of old people in Britain, BAME are under-represented. Especially age 70+.

As % of health and social care workers in UK, BAME are very over-represented.

I know the outcomes are different: once infected BAME have worse outcomes than whites. Just trying to say that it's hard to disengage the occupational risk; lots of confounders, actually.

[quote trulydelicious]@EveryDayIsADuvetDay

Do weirdly orange people with loo brush hair count as an ethnic minority

Your comment is offensive/ racistregarding 'loo brush hair', are you aware of this?[/quote]
Of which race is the over-use of orange make-up and loo brush hair a recognised characteristic?

@grannycurls you are derailing the thread. NICE do not issue guidelines for "healthy adults", thy issue guidelines for a population that includes unhealthy adults. They are better equipped to judge risks and benefits than you are. If you want to rant make it about why the government wouldnt fund a proper clinical trial.

To return to the point of the thread - going into workplaces to vaccinate is a good move. I hope they start with meat processing factories, they are known to be high risk.

@SandSeaBeach - absolutely spot on.

@SandSeaBeach

Annabel Sowemimo, a community sexual and reproductive health doctor, describes how entrenched health inequalities are inseparable from the data surrounding vaccine hesitancy. She looks back at historical scandals across the world of drugs being trialled on black communities without proper consent and the long-term damaging effect this has had on trust.

^THIS is the tip of the iceberg.
The distrust of Europeans is entrenched amongst the black African diaspora (particular those that descend from slaves) - quite rightly justified. This is just one of many things that the descendants of African slaves opt out of in the West whether living here in or in the US/Americas/Caribbean. But it’s the first that may potentially affect Europeans so now they appear bothered. That’s how it’s viewed. Rightly or wrongly. Until historical wrongs are acknowledged then righted, nothing will change. Black (British) people will keep smiling and nodding and having their own internal discussions and keep making their own internal decisions. BTW; Seeing Boris take a jab; veiled threats of loss of job opportunities (join the club) or travel restrictions (again nothing new; most of their relatives are never granted the Visa’s required) adds nothing to the discussion.

I'm not sure what end result is sought here. Are non-Muslim women to raise no concerns about the lot of their sisters? Are all patriarchal religions with a non-White majority to be above criticism, because of the slave trade? Given that satisfactory reparations are not likely to be paid, it seems as though you regard the spokesmen/leaders of BAME groups (which you seem to regard as a bloc) as being rightly immune from criticism. Presumably this applies to e.g. the attitudes to homosexuality? "Wait until reparations are paid; then criticise them".

"Polls have shown that Muslims tend to agree more with the statement “Husbands should work, wives should stay home” (38 percent) than Christians and those with no religion (18 and 11 percent). Research has also found that 44 percent of unemployed Muslim women say they are unable to work because they look after the home compared to 16 percent of unemployed women among the wider UK population ".
"These beliefs may play a role in the high levels of jobless British Muslim women. However, this is not saying that all Muslims hold these views and I would also be cautious in assuming these women are not happy in playing out their given social role." www.thebubble.org.uk/culture/philosophy-religion/opinion-islamic-unemployment-in-the-uk-what-can-be-done/

Comparisons with Hindu women in the UK seem to suggest that racial-prejudice is a lesser factor:
"There is evidence to suggest that discrimination plays a role. In 2009, around 5% of Muslims reported being turned down for a job due to racial discrimination. Though this is 5 times the national average, it is less than both Sikhs and Hindus . This is an interesting statistic because Sikhs and Hindus have far higher employment and incomes than the Muslim faith group showing that there are many factors influencing the employment data." www.thebubble.org.uk/culture/philosophy-religion/opinion-islamic-unemployment-in-the-uk-what-can-be-done/

I think it's reasonable to raise concerns about women's freedom to get vaccinations. If not on Mumsnet, then where?

And yes, the slave-trade, plantations, Jim Crow laws etc. were despicable.

In the words of Buffy St. Marie "It's here and it's now that we need your hand".

@Ladywinesalot

Blacks and Asians communities have been treated abysmally by the British for centuries.

Why would they trust a rushed through vaccine by the same people who has killed and abused them?

@2021vision

So one of the reasons the uptake is low is because many feel it's not been tested sufficiently on the BAME community. However how are they supposed to do this if no-one comes forward? Maybe more effort should go into recruiting or is it just that this is going to be a very very slow thing to change. The BAME can therefore refuse the vaccination on those grounds however responsbility needs to be taken within each group, it's a 2 way street.

I appreciate that there is nervousness due to historic practices and the awful things that happen and in many cases the discrimination that continues to happen. However there is a difference between individual cases and mass vaccination, we're all getting the same vaccination.

It will be very sad if uptake is low and this results in increased infection and death within those communities. Leaders and stronger members of these communities need to step up. go over and above to solve this situation because otherwise many people are going to be further disadvantaged and left behind.

Most sensible post on here x

Having asked around at work (care so we have all been offered) the main thing that would promote vaccine uptake would be countries/airlines insisting on vaccination.

That would hit both demographics who aren't taking it which in my workplace are young people and ethnic minorities (Afro-Carribean, British Pakistani and African immigrants where I work.). Most say they would take it if they had to for travel.

I think people are over-focussed on BAME on this - look at the figures for France. I think for whatever reason white British are pro-vaccine, particularly this vaccine while most other groups and that includes white Eastern European are more in line with rates in most European countries.

There are things we can do to try and address it but I think self-interest is the most powerful motivator and I think the vaccine hesitant are still keen to travel based on what my colleagues say.

Until historical wrongs are acknowledged then righted, nothing will change

How could this be achieved?

Found this today - interesting speculation about why you may be less at risk if of Indian ancestry timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/protein-behind-coronas-slow-asia-spread-study/articleshow/80757548.cms