BAME uptake of vaccination

[randomer]

I am reading that the BAME community is disproporionately affected by Covid and the uptake of offers of vaccines is less than non BAME.

I wonder if its true and also why.

I apologise for the clumsy term "BAME" but I can't think how else to word it.

It would be interesting to see the stats of BAME HCPs in particular. Logically it should be at roughly the same level as non BAME people, particularly among clinical staff.

Personally I feel it would be helpful for Boris Johnson to have the vaccine live on TV. Also it would have been helpful for the Queen and Prince Phillip to have had it live on TV also.

It's true that dark-skinned people, (among many others) don't necessarily trust the government/doctors on medical advice. Some serious errors have been made in the past (thalidomide) and the present (puberty blockers).

It's also true that dark-skinned people are a) generally low on the uptake on the vaccination and
b) are disproportionally at high risk for Covid infection, and death with Covid.

I've sort of explained point a) already, and my explanation is obviously controversial.

As for point b): the explanation is fairly simple and fairly uncontroversial. It has nothing to do with deprivation, poverty, ignorance. Many of the BAME infected people who have died are doctors, so do not fall into that socioeconomical group.

It's because of vitamin D deficiency among those of dark skin. Many dark-skinned people have this deficiency, due to melanin, which causes skin pigmentation. Melanin lowers the skin's ability to make vitamin D in response to sunlight exposure.

Vitamin D is the best protection against Covid. (In my personal view, better than a vaccine, but that IS a controversial statement!) It should have been recommended months ago, when winter started and Covid cases began to rise again.
But especially so for dark-skinned people. Do your research; there's a load of info out there. This article is a beginning.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/15/role-of-vitamin-d-deficiency-in-bame-medic-deaths

Interesting info on this video, if you like stats and other things
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/explainers-52969054

Cant remember if it was on this thread, that someone wanted to know about females in comparison to males.

I'm definitely interested in any useful videos that will make people feel more confident in taking up the vaccine.

I come from a community where even pre-covid, vaccination numbers are quite low. Luckily many people have had a change of heart and are prepared to take the vaccine, but sadly not nearly as many as it should be.

So one of the reasons the uptake is low is because many feel it's not been tested sufficiently on the BAME community. However how are they supposed to do this if no-one comes forward? Maybe more effort should go into recruiting or is it just that this is going to be a very very slow thing to change. The BAME can therefore refuse the vaccination on those grounds however responsbility needs to be taken within each group, it's a 2 way street.

I appreciate that there is nervousness due to historic practices and the awful things that happen and in many cases the discrimination that continues to happen. However there is a difference between individual cases and mass vaccination, we're all getting the same vaccination.

It will be very sad if uptake is low and this results in increased infection and death within those communities. Leaders and stronger members of these communities need to step up. go over and above to solve this situation because otherwise many people are going to be further disadvantaged and left behind.

So one of the reasons the uptake is low is because many feel it's not been tested sufficiently on the BAME community. However how are they supposed to do this if no-one comes forward?

Maybe relevant organisations might put substantial effort into proving themselves to be trustworthy? The organisations might publish plans to address the health inequities that have made some demographics more vulnerable than others and more likely to find themselves in a power asymmetry when it comes to health care.

Senior medics who are in minoritised ethnicities have asked for the collection of ethnicity data when people are vaccinated. It's taken too many weeks for this to be considered. However, it's now understandable that post-Windrush and other breaches of personal data, there are some groups of people who don't want to give this or other information.

OPENSafely is a fascinating project - and it highlighted how poorly collected some relevant data are and how often it is missing.

OpenSAFELY is a new secure analytics platform for electronic health records in the NHS, created to deliver urgent results during the global COVID-19 emergency. It is now successfully delivering analyses across more than 24 million patients’ full pseudonymised primary care NHS records, with more to follow shortly.

opensafely.org/

Thank you for that interesting link, EmbarrassingAdmissions, and I agree about the importance of addressing trust and inequalities

However that's not going to be done in a day and we're told the need for vaccination is now, which is why I personally favour reaching out to community leaders (though I appreciate even this will only make so much difference)

Since you're obviously well informed about this, may I ask what your thoughts are on possible barriers to BAME employment, access to services and so on, for those who continue to resist vaccination?

'Maybe relevant organisations might put substantial effort into proving themselves to be trustworthy'

The scientists who have developed the vaccine are trustworthy. The independent organisations who assess efficacy and safety are 'trustworthy' bound by legal and ethical frameworks. The nhs is 'trustworthy'.

We could all cite our negative experiences healthcare wise or trawl back over the decades when ethics weren't a priority however let's look at today. A pandemic is killing tens of thousands and there is a vaccine to reduce risk of serious illness and death. If we all have it then our lives should return to normal sooner.

@Ladywinesalot

Blacks and Asians communities have been treated abysmally by the British for centuries

The Tuskgee Syphilis study was commissioned by the USA, not the British

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study

@EveryDayIsADuvetDay

Do weirdly orange people with loo brush hair count as an ethnic minority

Your comment is offensive/ racistregarding 'loo brush hair', are you aware of this?

It will be very sad if uptake is low and this results in increased infection and death within those communities. Leaders and stronger members of these communities need to step up. go over and above to solve this situation because otherwise many people are going to be further disadvantaged and left behind.

Improve their Vitamin D uptake (up to 5000 iu daily) and they'll be fine. It's amazing how that advice is ignored.

Senior medics who are in minoritised ethnicities have asked for the collection of ethnicity data when people are vaccinated. It's taken too many weeks for this to be considered.

Surely when someone is called for vaccination it is done from their NHS record and is recorded on their NHS record. I would have thought that this record contains all the information about their ethnicity so we will have this data?

Surely when someone is called for vaccination it is done from their NHS record and is recorded on their NHS record. I would have thought that this record contains all the information about their ethnicity so we will have this data?

openSAFELY (as above) and other data analysis projects indicate that this isn't accurate - depending on when (never mind if) data were collected there are no clear definitions.

NHS England has recently committed to data collection at point of vaccination and updating an electronic healthcare record accordingly. However, given that people would need to attend to do this, there's a potentially large hole there, and giving that information can not be made compulsory (issues of trustworthines, as above).

www.rpharms.com/about-us/news/details/RPS-welcomes-extra-BAME-vaccine-data-collection-

Prof. Partha Kar calling for improved action:

Let’s start with the JCVI priority list. The issue of ethnicity is mysteriously missing. For sure, there is a mention of its relevance – yet without the clear policy recommendation that the evidence base warranted…

It also opens the question of science. If you want to follow the science, the QCOVID risk engine did this. It takes age, sex and ethnicity into account. Yet it has been unceremoniously sidelined when building vaccine prioritisation lists…
…
Data released by the OPENSAFELY today shows the impact of all I have described above – the issue of variable uptake based on ethnicity. As ever, the NHS will be reactive to it, yet we could have taken this head on, for once ensuring the priority was given so all local systems made adjustments at the start, not seven weeks down the line.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/coronavirus/when-will-leaders-act-on-ethnicity-data/

Perhaps a simple solution is that if you choose not to be vaccinated (obviously medical exemption is not a choice) you have to pay for nhs care if you subsequently get sick from covid and any one you personally do harm who couldn't be vaccinated/it's ineffective due to age or medical reasons to (yes I'm thinking of care workers refusing it here) can sue you for passing it on to them.

Sounds harsh but why should we pay for treatment if they haven't don't all they can to prevent it. I would give people until the autumn, and it's fully rolled out, after that vaccination is all but compulsory

@mootymoo yeah that’s not happening. good luck with that though.

One of the most racist threads I’ve seen on mumsnet. Cannot believe it is not been taken down.

@mootymoo

Perhaps a simple solution is that if you choose not to be vaccinated (obviously medical exemption is not a choice) you have to pay for nhs care if you subsequently get sick from covid and any one you personally do harm who couldn't be vaccinated/it's ineffective due to age or medical reasons to (yes I'm thinking of care workers refusing it here) can sue you for passing it on to them.

Sounds harsh but why should we pay for treatment if they haven't don't all they can to prevent it. I would give people until the autumn, and it's fully rolled out, after that vaccination is all but compulsory

I am Asian, but not British Asian, so have zero distrust of vaccinations and am dying to get mine. What you suggest though is inhuman for anyone. All " antivaxxers" deserve free treatment from the NHS.

I am hopeful that as more people get vaccinated, distrust will reduce.

Weird to be called 'they' and 'them' on a thread. Guess this is the whites only corner. Maybe my eyes were deceiving me when I saw photos of the weekly anti-vaxxers protests or the covidiots posting 'empty' photos (hint: hardly any BAME amongst 'them'). And I wonder why the peak of infections peaked just after end of December Hmmmm ...

Empty hospitals*

This is not the first time white people have forced others to do what they wish is it?

I must admit I'm slightly concerned about the (unknown) side effects of the jab but would still have it for the greater good

'Weird to be called 'they' and 'them' on a thread. Guess this is the whites only corner'

Well I've said those from the BAME community throughout. However once a group is identified in a discussion be it for example British, Germans, French whatever, it is then normal sentencing format to use they/them for who they are referring to. It isn’t a 'whites only' corner and it really is so offensive yet predictable some have decided it is a racist thread. I want a critical care bed for myself of relatives if needed, I don't want them taken up by any anti vaxxers whatever their ethnicity.

I've had the same concerns with some elderly relatives. They (see?) were reluctant to have the vaccine, thought the side effects may outweigh the benefits. After reading up on it and having a chat they've had it. They ( 'they' again) recognise it is imperative in a pandemic for everyone to be vaccinated.

'Perhaps a simple solution is that if you choose not to be vaccinated (obviously medical exemption is not a choice) you have to pay for nhs care if you subsequently get sick from covid and any one you personally do harm who couldn't be vaccinated'

Yes I think that for all anti vaxxers though of course ethically it's wrong. It's getting the right information out isn't it, just getting 'believable' people to share if distrust is so rampant.

@ConfusedcomMum

Personally I feel it would be helpful for Boris Johnson to have the vaccine live on TV. Also it would have been helpful for the Queen and Prince Phillip to have had it live on TV also.

That would mean Boris jumping the queue as he is in his 50s. I honestly don’t think anyone gives a monkeys whether or not Boris has it. He’ll be nonplussed anyway as already had covid.

At their advanced age no way should the queen have done it on live tv.

BAME celebrities a better idea, surely. Though many have posted their experiences on social media.

@ConfusedcomMum

Weird to be called 'they' and 'them' on a thread. Guess this is the whites only corner. Maybe my eyes were deceiving me when I saw photos of the weekly anti-vaxxers protests or the covidiots posting 'empty' photos (hint: hardly any BAME amongst 'them'). And I wonder why the peak of infections peaked just after end of December Hmmmm ...

I'm one who has used "they" and "them", in reference to dark-skinned people who are either Covid-positive, or have died from it, or who are vulnerable because their immunity is low. I use "they" and "them", because I am not within this group.

Not because I am white, but because neither do I have Covid, nor have I died from it, nor am I vulnerable (in spite of my dark skin.)

Are you OK with that? Can I excused from the whites-only corner?