BAME uptake of vaccination

[randomer]

I am reading that the BAME community is disproporionately affected by Covid and the uptake of offers of vaccines is less than non BAME.

I wonder if its true and also why.

I apologise for the clumsy term "BAME" but I can't think how else to word it.

Unfortunately we only have some fairly crude and ugly vocabulary at our disposal....BAME for example. It can be hard to have a nuanced discussion about a complex and emotive issue with these sweeping. generalisations at play.

Why does this always have to turn into a white vs black issue?
The fact is as the BAME community are the ones that seem to of suffered the most with covid it is in their best interests to get the vaccine done? If you work in a health care role especially it is your responsibility to protect the clients you work with so if a vaccine is offered you should take it.

Agree entirely, Ilovegreentomatoes. I think care workers of any ethnicity should take it, but no one who refuses should ever be denied treatment if needed.

There's a video discussion about global health and language (not vaccination as such) hosted at London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine that was interesting: Don't call me BAME

www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/events/dont-call-me-bame

@EmbarrassingAdmissions,I hate it when basically racists trot out PC as some sort of insult,but language can be a minefield.

One of the most racist threads I’ve seen on mumsnet

Someone else said this last night - I think the phrase used was "I don't know which post to report first"- and yet just one has been deleted. Something to take up with MNHQ perhaps? (unless it's seriously being suggested that's all full of racists too)

Happily, noone's denied that BAME communities have suffered some awful abuse and healthcare disadvantages; however the reasons for the healthcare issues are complex and none of it changes the position we're all in now

I'd hope that none of us want to see BAME people sicken or die of Covid, just as we don't want folk to miss out on opportunities due to not being vaccinated. The question, though, is what to do about it - which is why I'm sorry nobody's ever engaged on what it could mean for employment/access to services/travel, etc.

@randomer - agreed, it's an incredibly nuanced and complex issue. Some of the discussion here is hideously crude, and quite simply racist.

@PuzzledObserver @@Puzzledandpissedoff that was me. Sadly my app is being really buggy and I only managed to report one, which was deleted.

[quote trulydelicious]@EveryDayIsADuvetDay

Do weirdly orange people with loo brush hair count as an ethnic minority

Your comment is offensive/ racistregarding 'loo brush hair', are you aware of this?[/quote]
apologies to Donald Trump, whom I was referring to

which is why I'm sorry nobody's ever engaged on what it could mean for employment/access to services/travel, etc

As regards employment in general, I started a thread in legal matters. On a video posted on there, what you are specifically referring to, is touched upon.

@Fuckadoodledoooo

When i was pregnant with my first, the treatment i got from the EPU was horrendous, and looking back I should have complained. But I was far too ill at the time. I remember having an appointment at around 5 months and a midwife called my name out, as i was about to get up she saw me and just ran off. I saw her in the distance calling another couple. I told reception and they said sorry and put me with a student midwife. Mind you i lost a pregnancy at 5 months not long before. I ended up being blue lighted at 7 months and was about to get an emergency csec at another city. But just before that a Dr came to my room and without examining me said i could go home although i was bleeding heavily, i ended up crying when he left and told the next Dr who was Asian about what he said. She just laughed and said you are in no state to go home. I ended up with an emergency csec that evening and ended up staying in the hospital for over a month due to complications.

@MadamMaltesers that's horrendous.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that

Thanks, lightand - I'll have a look, in the hope of a rational discussion rather than mudslinging

[quote amelie427]**@PuzzledObserver* @@Puzzledandpissedoff* that was me. Sadly my app is being really buggy and I only managed to report one, which was deleted. [/quote]
Hopefully, you've given the same amount of time to supporting those posts on this thread-currently containing 139 messages-which have been supportive, suggesting means by which the people who are least likely for religious or other reasons; because of their ethnicity, to take up the vaccine.

Ethnic:
"pertaining to or characteristic of a people, especially a group(ethnic group ) sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like....belonging to or deriving from the cultural, religious, or linguistic traditions of a people or country." www.dictionary.com/browse/ethnic

If, as you suggest, we aren't to unpick the problem of the low takeup by different groups of maternity services, vaccination, etc. by using the comparative method, then we are stymied.

'BAME' is used to lump together different groups who sometimes feel uncomfortable about that.

Here's a report by David E.Rosenberg foreignpolicy.com/2020/10/12/the-government-cant-save-ultra-orthodox-jews-from-covid-19-religious-leaders-can/
on how "The coronavirus has hit Haredi enclaves hard, but without clear directives from rabbis, isolated communities from Jerusalem to New York will continue to suffer."

You may feel that it's better not to question the role of religious gate-keepers in the increased mortality rate of the men, women and children under their care, but Mr.Rosenberg and I disagree with you.

Call it racist if you like. Oh, and to save anyone counting, once he's used "The Haredi" once in a sentence, he uses 'they' or 'their'. Shockin', I tell you, shockin' !

I'm white, my maternity care was inadequate, I rang my husband and told him he needed to come in when I was in labour and not being believed. I told him I wanted to go to another hospital but didnt manage to do that. For that reason I dislike the assumption that if you get poor maternity care it is because of your skin colour.

My decision to take statins or not will not lead to me infecting others, not being vaccinated could lead to someone else's death. So it is a more emotive issue. I can - and have - got pretty angry with people spreading junk they claim is science.

Although I've been encouraging everyone to take vitamin D we still dont know exactly what impact that has. There is enough evidence to believe it may reduces the risk of death but it doesnt eliminate it and there is no evidence on whether it prevents other problems that covid can cause. I'm not planning to rely on it, I'll be vaccinated as soon as I can.

The real issue is what can be done to encourage the reluctant, of any hue, to take up vaccination. Providing decent information may help a little but it clearly doesnt get through to some people. Americans seems to have a real problem because one of the biggest providers of misinformation was their president.

I suspect that when many more people have had the vaccine refusals will drop considerably. Publicising people having the vaccine is obviously helpful.

I'm white, my maternity care was inadequate, I rang my husband and told him he needed to come in when I was in labour and not being believed. I told him I wanted to go to another hospital but didnt manage to do that. For that reason I dislike the assumption that if you get poor maternity care it is because of your skin colour.

Me too. I've had three babies and Christ, my care on the NHS has been awful. So much so that I shelled out for as much private care as possible in the last one - private midwife, scans etc. I just had to have some extra tests and give birth on the NHS. Couldn't afford to have a privet section.

But I did witness some terrible racism. I was in hospital a lot in my last pregnancy and overheard some terrible things from midwives on the ward. Some awful stereotypes about Black and Muslim women and their families. Terrible assumptions, accents being made fun of when they had come of the phone with them etc. And my God, I complained. I wasn't happy with the outcome so the complaint procedure is still happening.

It's no shock to me that these women are treated abysmally.

@defaultname

You've projected a lot onto me there.

There is some perfectly reasonable & compassionate discussion on this thread. There is also plenty of insidious racism. If you can't see that, then a) I can't help you & b) you're part of the problem.

@lightand

Does anyone know when if at all, the results of the yellow card scheme will be made known

Yes, I would also be interested to know how/when this will be reported. I think it will massively contribute to transparency and uptake of those who are vaccine hesitant (me included)

Although I've been encouraging everyone to take vitamin D we still dont know exactly what impact that has. There is enough evidence to believe it may reduces the risk of death but it doesnt eliminate it and there is no evidence on whether it prevents other problems that covid can cause. I'm not planning to rely on it, I'll be vaccinated as soon as I can.

There's actually a whole lot of results on the effect of Vitamin D as calcefidiol; for instance, a veritable miracle in Andalucia. Please read this article and take a look at the stats provided further down.

Why is information like this being suppressed or denied? That is the big question.

www.drdavidgrimes.com/2021/01/covid-19-and-vitamin-d-miracle-in.html?fbclid=IwAR2J1z4weT1fkxMt7gVaO9uclrDlBYR9AcubXdftc7FCeDnyLpTNVDy8DaI

Does anyone know when if at all, the results of the yellow card scheme will be made known

I've no idea if this is the result of the Yellow Card Scheme, but reportedly the regulators have commented: www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55946912

And here's the report about the Zoe App's version of it: www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55932832

Why is information like this being suppressed or denied? That is the big question

I wasn't aware it was? Granted every last expert's views on the subject may not have been publicised, but surely the benefits of Vitamin D have been pretty well touted already?

There's actually a whole lot of results on the effect of Vitamin D as calcefidiol; for instance, a veritable miracle in Andalucia. Please read this article and take a look at the stats provided further down.

Why is information like this being suppressed or denied? That is the big question

That study was included in the review for the NICE/SACN vitamin D and COVID–19 guidelines. There's a discussion of it here:

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng187/chapter/Rationale

Vitamin D was used in a hospital population that doesn't generalise well to the NHS and it was part of a suite of treatments that was being used (2 of which have since been deprecated as of no benefit/potentially harmful - hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin).

[quote trulydelicious]@lightand

Does anyone know when if at all, the results of the yellow card scheme will be made known

Yes, I would also be interested to know how/when this will be reported. I think it will massively contribute to transparency and uptake of those who are vaccine hesitant (me included)[/quote]
There are regular summaries that incorporate Yellow Card reporting data and surveillance data.

As of 24 January 2021, for the UK:

- 16,756 Yellow Cards have been reported for the Pfizer/BioNTech
- 6,014 have been reported for the Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine
-50 have been reported where the brand of the vaccine was not specified
For both vaccines the overall reporting rate is around 3 Yellow Cards per 1,000 doses administered.

For both vaccines, the overwhelming majority of reports relate to injection-site reactions (sore arm for example) and generalised symptoms such as ‘flu-like’ illness, headache, chills, fatigue (tiredness), nausea (feeling sick), fever, dizziness, weakness, aching muscles, and rapid heartbeat. Generally, these happen shortly after the vaccination and are not associated with more serious or lasting illness.

These types of reactions reflect the normal immune response triggered by the body to the vaccines. They are typically seen with most types of vaccine and tend to resolve within a day or two. The nature of reported suspected side effects is broadly similar across age groups, although, as was seen in clinical trials and as is usually seen with other vaccines, they may be reported more frequently in younger adults.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

Thank you, EmbarrassingAdmissions ... I knew someone would make a better job of finding it than I did!!