BAME uptake of vaccination

[randomer]

I am reading that the BAME community is disproporionately affected by Covid and the uptake of offers of vaccines is less than non BAME.

I wonder if its true and also why.

I apologise for the clumsy term "BAME" but I can't think how else to word it.

Gov.uk: "For both vaccines the overall reporting rate is around 3 Yellow Cards per 1,000 doses administered"

Just thinking ... that doesn't really fit, does it, with endless posts saying that "whole groups of colleagues" have been really floored by their jabs and had to go off sick?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Why is information like this being suppressed or denied? That is the big question

I wasn't aware it was? Granted every last expert's views on the subject may not have been publicised, but surely the benefits of Vitamin D have been pretty well touted already?

From that article: The rest of the world should have followed the Córdoba protocol but it did not do so. The UK NICE stated that the result of the study should not influence the treatment of Covid-19. A second large trial was demanded, and one was arranged in Spain. By the end of 2020, and by when 45,000 deaths had occurred since the result of the Córdoba study, the result of the second clinical trial had not appeared. Deaths continue, up to 1,000 per day. ICUs are under great pressure.

They don't want to know. They close their eyes and chant lalalalalala.

Here's a letter signed by over 200 doctors and scientists that is also being ignored.
vitamindforall.org/letter.html

Vitamin D was used in a hospital population that doesn't generalise well to the NHS and it was part of a suite of treatments that was being used (2 of which have since been deprecated as of no benefit/potentially harmful - hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin).

I'm sorry, but that NICE article (see quote below) is just waffle. 400 units of Vitamin D for "bones and muscle health" -- what a joke! That's not the Vitamin D treatment suggested or applied in the Andalucía case. NICE just doesn't want to admit it that there IS a very effective treatment.

Why the panel made the recommendations
The panel agreed that there was little evidence for using vitamin D supplements to prevent or treat COVID‑19. However, they agreed that vitamin D use is well established for maintaining bone and muscle health. They expressed concerns that not everyone is aware of, or is following, UK government advice on taking a vitamin D supplement, so wanted to include a recommendation to emphasise the existing guidance. They stressed that everyone should consider taking a supplement containing 10 micrograms (400 units) of vitamin D daily between October and early March, when people in the UK do not make enough vitamin D from sunlight. They also stressed that this was particularly important during the COVID‑19 pandemic, when people may have been indoors more than usual over the spring and summer.

It's really a question of faith, isn't it? Of whom you trust? Whom you believe? For me, not NICE. Pun intended! :)

From this article, which explains it better than I can:

www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-vitamin-d-key-ending-covid19-dr-gareth-davies-gruff-/?fbclid=IwAR0ZNiO_xti92ChpGCDWiLA18k4Z2M5_IPHPhhz6hwI3wuVygxqhgZVkM4k

So, let's be clear: during a deadly pandemic NICE told and continues to tell our goverment and population that people should not take potentially life-saving doses of vitamin D because it felt the risks of rickets and hypercalcaemia outweighed the risk of dying from COVID19. NICE told us and continues to assert there is insufficient evidence for vitamin D and yet it didn't look at the mountain of evidence.

All Vitamin D experts and up-to-date immunologists agree: adults need between 2000 and 4000 IU (100mcg) of vitamin D over winter to keep their immune systems functioning and their renin-angiotensin systems balanced and calm.

Thanks @Puzzledandpissedoff and @EmbarrassingAdmissions

I will go through the information

I'm sorry, but that NICE article (see quote below) is just waffle. 400 units of Vitamin D for "bones and muscle health" -- what a joke! That's not the Vitamin D treatment suggested or applied in the Andalucía case. NICE just doesn't want to admit it that there IS a very effective treatment.

You might not agree with it but the review discusses the trial in some detail despite your previous assertion that the trial was suppressed or ignored.

I should think that you have the freedom to write to NICE and challenge the findings of the evidence review, the panel's interpretation of the literature, and the recommendations if you consider that you have the appropriate grounds.

The UK CORONAVIT trial will report later this year.

Question: I thought the yellow card scheme was for unexpected side effects. Should people be using it to report sore arms, headaches, chills etc - all of which are listed as common side effects?

You might not agree with it but the review discusses the trial in some detail despite your previous assertion that the trial was suppressed or ignored.

But that's exactly what NICE has done. Ignored the results and recommends 400 iu daily, when the dose to combat Covid should be 4000. That is my eyes is suppression and ignoring.

I should think that you have the freedom to write to NICE and challenge the findings of the evidence review, the panel's interpretation of the literature, and the recommendations if you consider that you have the appropriate grounds.

Since I am not a UK citizen or resident, this is not necessary. And anyway, I should think there are enough experts battering down the doors, making noise that isn't being listened to!

A mosque has been turned into a pop-up Covid vaccination centre to help ease mistrust in the Muslim community about getting the jab, PA media reports.

Young children went with their grandparents and relatives aged over 68 in the bitter winter chill to the makeshift clinic at the London Muslim Centre for the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.

It comes just days after local medical officials in Tower Hamlets said only three out of 200 people who had been contacted had turned up for an appointment, according to Asad Jaman, of the East London Mosque.

Jaman said misinformation, confusion and negative online information had created concerns about the vaccine.

He said:
We are telling the people that it is wise for you to take the vaccine because you are not only helping yourself but you are helping the community and beyond. As a Muslim, it is very important that we give time and support the preservation of life. www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/feb/06/coronavirus-live-news-greece-astrazeneca-vaccine-under-65s-melbourne-lebanon-covid-19-uk-europe

Absolutely brilliant!

Interesting, I'm white and my maternity care was an absolute disgrace.
We tried to complain but they closed ranks.

@randomer

OP, do you have an opinion or idea on the thread you’ve started? Have you done any reading/research on it? What’s the purpose of this thread? Do you know any people who aren’t white and have refused the vaccine? Etc

Literallyfedup

I read somewhere that some BAME people are not confident with the vaccine due to lack of trial data on BAME population. “

Ok, hands up, I’m completely ignorant when it comes to biology/physiology, just not something I ever studied.
Are BAME people biologically different to say white Europeans then?
I’ve always assumed we’re all pretty much the same, whatever our outward appearance, ie a species of mammal.

@randomer

Interesting, I'm white and my maternity care was an absolute disgrace. We tried to complain but they closed ranks.

Yeah they do that.

It took me six years after my first birth but I had to fight.

When I complained about the racist comments, the reply I got was "we are sorry you thoughtyou heard our staff make racist remarks"

I saw red at that. So it's still ongoing and I won't let it die.

When I complained about the racist comments, the reply I got was "we are sorry you thoughtyou heard our staff make racist remarks"

It’s a disgrace. I’m still annoyed with myself I didn’t formally complain. I was treated so poorly, was asked numerous times if I was born in a place with high TB rates, even though I said I was born in England 7 time. I forgot my maternity notes and they accused me of coming to England for a free birth... they had spelt my name wrong so could find me on the System. Ooh that’s not an English name was said 3 times...!

@OverTheRainbow88 Jesus! What a horrible thing to go through.

I'm a quarter Indian. So just tanned. Most people think I'm part Spanish or Italian. So I don't really get remarks about myself.

Although, the midwife at booking refused to put white British. As she said I looked white European. So she put that.I mean, what the fuck?

The racism was what I mentioned upthread. I was in hospital a lot due to complications and overheard midwives being vile about black and Muslim women. Mimicking accents and using stereotypes.

certain gene patterns are more common in some populations than others - whether that matters or not with vaccination is unknown.

Most of the evidence that vitamin D seems to be beneficial is not from controlled trials, therefore NICE wont pay as much attention to it. That is because of things like thalidomide happening in the best, they want good quality research before recommending it. There are larger trials going on but not completed. Clinical trials are often slow to enroll people and to write up.

There is a considerable difference between saying those with low levels of vitamin D do badly and supplementation will change that and be safe. Most scientists would agree with the first, be more dubious about the second.

Personally I'm taking vitamin D and a higher dose than NICE recommend. But I dont believe it is sensible to rely on that, not least because without testing you dont know how much you are absorbing. And I do point out that overdosing and side effects are possible, some of the doses people suggest could be dangerous long term.

I think the maternity care was diabolical in the 90s whoever you were

@woodhill

I think the maternity care was diabolical in the 90s whoever you were

First baby 2001, 3rd last year. Still terrible.

Yes, probably got worse. I was horrified, midwives great but aftercare not good

Some people will have it, others won't.
The people I speak to who won't take it right away are those wanting others to be the gineau pigs and that's people from all walks of life and different races, too.

I live in an area of the UK with a high percentage of people from Southeast Asia origin. Hardly anyone wears masks round here. If they are forced to in shops, then very many of them wear them on their mouth only, below their nose, which is obviously completely pointless.

I used to live in Southeast Asia (being deliberately vague) and I found the culture to be not very risk averse. No seat belts worn or car seats used, for instance.

Some cultures are just naturally more risk-averse than others. It’s as simple as that. And if people don’t see the point of wearing a mask then I imagine they probably don’t see the point of having the vaccine either.

@OverTheRainbow88, my opinion is that it causes me concern, if more BAME people are at risk and also more BAME are not embracing the idea of vaccination.
I try to make sense of what is going on, but more often than not I can't.

I've been working calling up people to offer the vaccine and haven't noticed any difference in take up between ethnicities

I'd say 95% of people I called today accepted and I live in Leicester so we have a very diverse population

A GP in my city has reported that a lower percentage of Asian & Somali uptake of the vaccine & part of the city which has a high Roma population has one of the lowest uptakes in the country.