BAME uptake of vaccination

[randomer]

I am reading that the BAME community is disproporionately affected by Covid and the uptake of offers of vaccines is less than non BAME.

I wonder if its true and also why.

I apologise for the clumsy term "BAME" but I can't think how else to word it.

Distrust of state authorities.
I imagine uptake will steadily increase as increasing amounts of time pass with no news of significant adverse side effects.

That is what I think @DedlyMedally

Does anyone know when if at all, the results of the yellow card scheme will be made known?

@independent98
Can we not turn this into a white vs bame community debate and stick to the discussion and education of bame vaccine hesistancy!!

That is twice I have seen the word "education" used in this type of discussion[not at all sure it was you last time @independent98.
It makes me wince everytime.

Some of these comments are grossly offensive. I've never felt "othering" as acutely as I have on Mumsnet recently. Being referred to constantly as "they" is so upsetting. Non-white people aren't a whole other type of human for you to lump into a group for discussion and debate as you wish.

Christ. I'm not sure which racist post to report first.

@Pebbles574

Black women are 5 times more likely to die during childbirth. They are not listened to. They are dismissed. Their choices in labour are not listened to, including when they want pain relief.

I don't doubt that this is the case sometimes, but it is not always as straightforward as this. Because of things like the mistrust of healthcare services and the overreliance on family members/ beliefs about labour & childbirth etc, there are many black women who (finally) present at hospital in much later stages of labour than other groups, often in emergency situations. Their choices about birth/ pain relief may then be more limited.

I'm not saying there aren't problems to be addressed, but it's too simplistic to put it all down to inherent racism.

Totally agree with this, it's not just Black people it's any race that has mistrust of hospitals or whose culture is for female family members to deliver the baby. I'm White BAME 54 years old and the first of my generation to be born in a hospital, and that was only because of known problems.

'I've never felt "othering" as acutely as I have on Mumsnet recently. Being referred to constantly as "they" is so upsetting'

Sorry you're upset but this is a public health crisis, it affects us all. If there is low vaccine uptake in some ethnic communities it isn't racist or othering to ask why.

I hope we'll get to the stage where people will see it is for their and their loved ones protection but if not then there shouldn't be staff in front line hcp roles who are vaccine refusers. Yes if we've had it then we have some protection but it is nowhere near 100%.

Apologies as I haven’t read the full thread but I would like to link to a session done by my friends and colleagues at a West London hospital with large BAME population.

I was born at home, too, one of six working-class kids. All born at home.
I'm finding it difficult to find any birth or marriage certificates of my grand-parents, who were Gypsies.

As a sociologist (at least, that's what it says on my degree), I'd be interested in knowing if the uptake of vaccines is lower for women than men, and if it is, to what extent any difference in rates between, say, Indian and Pakistani women is due to cultural factors.

While the abominable Tuskagee activity in Alabama is often cited online, I have to wonder how much impact this has on minority British communities.

@independent98

Can we not turn this into a white vs bame community debate and stick to the discussion and education of bame vaccine hesistancy!!

There are white BAME people too, just for the record. It's important to point this out as other BAME ethnic minorities are reporting low uptake of the vaccine.

@Defaultname

I was born at home, too, one of six working-class kids. All born at home. I'm finding it difficult to find any birth or marriage certificates of my grand-parents, who were Gypsies.

As a sociologist (at least, that's what it says on my degree), I'd be interested in knowing if the uptake of vaccines is lower for women than men, and if it is, to what extent any difference in rates between, say, Indian and Pakistani women is due to cultural factors.

While the abominable Tuskagee activity in Alabama is often cited online, I have to wonder how much impact this has on minority British communities.

Don't want to derail the thread, I have an AMA gypsiologist. Post on there if you like and I'll help all I can.

I have two reasons for caring (I’m white, by the way)

The first and by far the more important is that low vaccine uptake will mean increased illness and death rates among minority communities, who are already suffering more. That is unjust - as are all the horrendous stories of discrimination in healthcare - and I want it to be different. And it could be different, if they would take the vaccine at the same rate as the white population.

The second is the general point about high vaccination rates being the way out of this crisis. The more people refuse or delay, the longer the damage will go on.

But, as has already been said, it is voices from within those communities that will make the difference. Why should anybody listen to me and people like me?

It is selfish not to get a vaccine. However if you are being deliberately targeted with misinformation and you have historic reasons to be fearful it is more understandable.

Religious and other leaders are being enlisted to help and hopefully as more people see pictures of clinics where BAME staff (amongst others) are vaccinating other BAME people there will be less mistrust.

I'd like to see more action taken against those spreading misinformation, although it's obviously far too late to find the original source.

@Ladywinesalot

Blacks and Asians communities have been treated abysmally by the British for centuries.

Why would they trust a rushed through vaccine by the same people who has killed and abused them?

I've not seen any information suggesting BAME communities should be vaccinated first or otherwise prioritised

Credit to the mosques that have hosted vaccination centres in part to dispel myths about the vaccine for their communities.

an agenda held by some far-Right groups, mostly based in the USA, who are tailoring messages specifically to discourage Black people from taking the vaccine on social media

Do weirdly orange people with loo brush hair count as an ethnic minority?
Unrelated to thread, but just wondering

I hope we'll get to the stage where people will see it is for their and their loved ones protection but if not then there shouldn't be staff in front line hcp roles who are vaccine refusers

Okay, but given the demographics of the health service plenty of those front line jobs will be fulfilled by those from BAME communities, and despite the pressures plenty no doubt enjoy their roles, have done well in them and are disinclined to move

So what happens if they still refuse the vaccines? Do we say "tough, that's your choice but it means you'll have to move" (as has been suggested on here for other workers) or will patients simply be told to suck it up and "we can't do that because it's cultural"?

Frankly I can't imagine either going down well ...

[quote independent98]@getoffyourhighhorse

A question was asked why the bame community is hesistant about the vaccine and many people have provided facts and evidence to explain it.
Your dismissing @overtherainbow88 for their views.
Getting vaccinated is down to each individuals own choice and freedom to do so.
Whatever reasons or rationale anyone holds is down to them alone and not for anyone to tell them that they are making excuses. What you may seem as an excuse is logical for them.[/quote]
I totally agree with this, the question was answered.
Does it matter why someone doesn't want the vaccination?
They either do or don't.
My dh doesn't he's white, British and doesn't trust it.
There's no other reason.

No one is forced to take the vaccine whether for selfish reasons or not. As long as it is not illegal then it is free choice

If you want it then get it not examining and trying to convince everyone else

'Does it matter why someone doesn't want the vaccination?They either do or don't.My dh doesn't he's white, British and doesn't trust it.There's no other reason.'

Well of course it matters, as I've said it's a public health crisis. It affects us all. If infection rates don't come right down then restrictions will stay for longer.

How can your 'white British dh' not trust a vaccine when the data and evidence is there to see?!

Hopefully the majority will get it and then the areas with high rates will maybe just have targeted local restrictions.

I think it matters if people are deciding not to have it based on incorrect information.

We don't all not take medication because of disasters like thalidomide or unethical practises in the past.
My friend's mum didn't have a child affected by it but saw other mothers whose children were affected by the thalidomide tragedy. It had a profound effect on her and she told my friend about it. My friend now insists she will not have the Covid vaccine precisely because of the thalidomide tragedy.

We don't all not take medication because of disasters like thalidomide or unethical practises in the past.

Putting aside the current public health dilemma, a lot of people don't adhere to healthcare guidance or use recommended treatments. Eg, statins for high cholesterol, various medications for BP, adequate control of NIDDM: those choices reflect personal preferences and/or profound mistrust.

People in healthcare organisations (including patient groups concerned with cardiovascular disease) refer to anti-statin people in the same way as others refer to anti-vaxxers or those who are vaccine hesitant.