Captain Sir Tom Moore: Cleric's apology for tweet condemning nationwide clap 'does not undo hurt'

[trulydelicious]

news.sky.com/story/captain-sir-tom-moore-apology-for-tweet-condemning-clap-for-captain-tom-does-not-undo-hurt-12208212

It's worrying how some can harbour so much hate and still be allowed to hold a position in the Church (and fuel division through Twitter)

”It’s so sad to think we see a little old white man as some saint”

And it’s bloody sad that there are posters harbouring such bile.

Maybe an old man did a good thing and then sadly died. We pay him respects and leave his family alone to grieve in peace

If only ...

There is no hope!!

@Radio4Rocks

“I agree with him. There was no criticism of Captain Tom implied just of a certain type of admirer, They are to be found all over facebook. Racist to the core. Surely you have seen that?”

I haven’t, no. Not even one. Do you know how Facebook’s algorithms work? That it appears all over your Facebook says more about your views and who you chose as your friends.

Another aspect to the Captain Tom story was the fact that as well as being 100, and a WW2 veteran, he was an interviewer's dream. Funny and articulate and full of quotable bon mots.

So do I, and its ridiculous to demand that everyone from all backgrounds and cultures sees Captain Tom as a saint.

No one needs to regard Captain Tom as a saint. But the NHS is used by people from all backgrounds and cultures - his efforts went towards helping society as a whole regardless of race or sex.

Which makes the comments reducing Sir Tom’s achievements to petty jibes about skin colour, particularly distasteful.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

most know just how hard it is to remove an unsuitable employee, and multiply that by ten if they come with protected characteristics

Yes, and it's concerning that someone who is damaging an institution through continuous hate speech cannot be removed just because he has protected characteristics.

The world has gone mad indeed. We need fairness and balance

Of more importance than one person's questionable tweet, now withdrawn and apologised for, is this:

Deaths from Covid are much more common among people of minority ethnic backgrounds than white people, and among people from deprived areas than from more affluent areas.

So is vaccine hesitancy. The people who are more likely to die from Covid are less likely to accept the vaccine.

I am asking myself how something can be done to increase uptake among non-white communities without it being seen as (or being) white paternalism.... and how something can be done to increase uptake among poorer communities without it being seen as (or being) middle class "we know better than you."

The OP won't be concerned about that. Not a bit.

@Comefromaway

I can't see a huge amount wrong with what he said.

Same

I agree with him

@PuzzledObserver

Of more importance than one person's questionable tweet, now withdrawn and apologised for, is this:

Deaths from Covid are much more common among people of minority ethnic backgrounds than white people, and among people from deprived areas than from more affluent areas.

So is vaccine hesitancy. The people who are more likely to die from Covid are less likely to accept the vaccine.

I am asking myself how something can be done to increase uptake among non-white communities without it being seen as (or being) white paternalism.... and how something can be done to increase uptake among poorer communities without it being seen as (or being) middle class "we know better than you."

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/25/meera-syal-and-adil-ray-among-celebs-in-video-urging-covid-vaccine-take-up-by-ethnic-minorities

[quote trulydelicious]@drivinmecrazy

Captain Tom was a media construct because he was white. Had he been any other race we'd never of heard of him

That is just your (very prejudiced) opinion[/quote]
Oh open your eyes - of COURSE he wouldn't if he was black or Asian. Dear God woman! How naive! I bet you're one of those people that doesn't see anything wrong with posting 'All lives mattter' aren't you?

@Glenchase

How is it "white British nationalism"? It’s not. It could reasonably be called “British nationalism”. But why does anyone need to bring race into it? Only a racist would look at Captain Sir Tom and see his skin colour.

Because British nationalism is rooted in racism. Because British nationalists are white. HTH.

Essentially it boils down to: The ‘clergyman’ had an issue with a national celebration of the actions of a white man. Because of course, celebrating a white man = white nationalism/ supremacy...

Some posters seem to think that the fact that given that - allegedly- a small number of white nationalists have made racist comments off the back of Sir Captain Tom’s achievements, that means that ALL white people who celebrate him are racist. Right...

I think it is deeply concerning that a man in a position of power and influence who has supposedly taken a calling from God to look after others harbours such suspicion and hatred of his fellow human beings that he would make sweeping and paranoid judgments like that.

The nation WASN'T looking for a figurehead, the government was. Handy his family have links to the government and PR.

Because British nationalism is rooted in racism. Because British nationalists are white. HTH. What about Scottish Nationalists?

There were plenty of other, worthy people doing their own challenges to raise money but we don't get to hear about them because CT was chosen for the narrative and effectively pimped by his government and family

@drivinmecrazy

username44416 you miss the point. Captain Tom was a media construct because he was white. Had he been any other race we'd never of heard of him.

Absolutely 100%

What depressing comments on this thread. Captain Tom was the first to raise a large amount of money and he was 99 at the time - others were inspired by him (they all say so themselves). The media were hardly going to drop him the minute they heard that a few other over-70 year olds were doing walks/skips/runs for the same cause. There was an elderly lady on our local news who said she'd thought "if he can do it, why can't I?" and did exactly the same thing of walking up and down her garden. Nice to see but you don't know if these others were doing it to get some attention or just to raise the money, as CT appeared to be originally. Copying someone else's idea is never going to be as newsworthy as the original.

The point made wasn’t a criticism of Tom Moore, but an observation about white, British exceptionalism. The lovely Mr Choudhury, who was even older that Captain Moore, did the same whilst simultaneously fasting for Ramadan. He was given an OBE, though, not a knighthood like Captain Moore. Yet, hardly anyone knows his name.

@Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople

I can see how Captain Tom now be could be used as a right wing poster boy (entirely without his collusion/approval/support whilst he was alive). That has absolutely nothing to do with him as an individual but is a well worn path for the far right. They did the same with various murdered soldiers and their families actually had to come out to condemn Britain First misusing their son’s image. That’s the sort of thing that the clergy person was talking about. He wasn’t criticising Captain Tom himself at all.

Now it’s explained to me I see it... but I don’t do much social media (apart from MN) so apart from the over-the-top hero worship threads, I didn’t make the link with white nationalism or anything else. I felt emotional about his passing (he was like everyone’s grandad - I lost my grandma in October and couldn’t visit her, so maybe some transferred emotion about the sadness that has touched all of us). His family approved the clap, it was a nice thing to do.

As PP have said, it is important that he doesn’t become some kind of figurehead for racists, I’m sure he’d be horrified. Also fair to look at why he particularly caught people’s imaginations (thousands of people, disabled children etc fundraising, there was obviously something about his story). But to effectively brand everyone who clapped as racist was ill judged. It sounds like it’s being dealt with, absolutely no excuse to abuse him over it. It reminds me of the over-reaction to that comment from a gym trainer. These witch hunts are completely disproportionate.

@derxa

Because British nationalism is rooted in racism. Because British nationalists are white. HTH. What about Scottish Nationalists?

@derxa this is actually something that has been discussed, and it put down to a poor choice of word. The Scottish independence movement is totally different to what has come to be known as 'nationalism'. This quote describes it better:

'This disfigurement of English national pride has now become indivisible from British nationalism and all that this now implies. Britishness now seems to demand fealty, not to the concept of Britain but to a narrow, Little England version of it and expressed in the shrill language of fear and domination.
Scottish Nationalism may be an imperfect name for seeking the independence of this imperfect little nation. But don’t let its detractors kid you that there’s any equivalence with English nationalism or what Britishness has lately come to mean.'

From this article www.thenational.scot/news/18595430.unionists-nationalists-something-else-altogether/

It was a very ill judged comment, it buys into the narrative that celebrating any achievements by white people is racist, which is divisive and dangerous and fuels the fire of the intolerance. Not helpful to anyone.

@MolyHolyGuacamole Ah, so it's ok for the Scots, but not for anyone else? A bit like how other populations are praised for their patriotism but if it's us then it's awful nationalism? Right.