Captain Sir Tom Moore: Cleric's apology for tweet condemning nationwide clap 'does not undo hurt'

[trulydelicious]

news.sky.com/story/captain-sir-tom-moore-apology-for-tweet-condemning-clap-for-captain-tom-does-not-undo-hurt-12208212

It's worrying how some can harbour so much hate and still be allowed to hold a position in the Church (and fuel division through Twitter)

RusselBrandsHair I already said my views on Johnson, which are that he shouldnt be in office.

Im the second person youve accused of supporting him with no evidence.

So if you agree can you explain why you think calling people of all ethnicities part of a "white cult" is acceptable?

Apologies RusselBrandsHair it was a different poster who said they agreed, but Id still like to understand if anyone can explain.

Many people clapped last night.

Why would anyone assume theyre all white, or nationalistic?

i'd vote for a party that would increase the pay for nurses and doctors though.
You think it would be a cause of shame that a 100 yo had to fund raise for the NHS

I didn't do clap for carers or anyone else. Can still think of them all privately without hysteria. Just because you don't "clap" doesn't mean that you don't have respect for an individual.

@Worknoplay

It's a bit rich to mention Rashford as he is constantly being the subject of racist abuse online. Vicious, persistent, targeted and organised racist abuse.

I agree with a lot of points made in the article, and I didn't clap Captain Tom on my doorstep. I'd vote for a party that would increase the pay for nurses and doctors though.

My point is, Rashford was honoured with an MBE for his contribution to charity. You are saying that Captain Tom was only honoured because he was white, no other reason. I pointed out that a black man was also honoured and Choudhury who raised £150k was also honoured with an OBE.

I understand that facts sometimes get in the way of blind bigotry, but there we are. A cleric who has nothing better to do that sow seeds of division, should perhaps find another job.

Threads about race on mumsnet are always so depressing. Every time a black person talks about race publicly there are are threads like this. A black person talking about “white British nationalism” is not racist abuse FFS. It’s easy to say “I don’t see race” or “it doesn’t matter what race someone is to me” if your race has never been an issue for you. There is definitely an undercurrent of white British nationalism behind some of the celebration of Captain Tom. Just because you have been blissfully unaware of it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Racist groups often associate themselves with celebration of the armed forces and piggyback onto commemorative events and veterans issues to lend a veneer of respectability to their unpleasant politics. Britain First built a huge following on Facebook years ago by sharing huge numbers of “like this to show respect for our armed forces” and “share this in tribute to all those who died in the Great War” posts that were totally innocuous and non-racist to suck in people who they then pushed nasty racist propaganda to. It was their playbook... other groups are now doing that with Captain Tom related posts. This priest is entitled to feel uncomfortable about that. The undercurrent to threads like these is always that black people are the real racists and white people are the real victims of racism in Britain, which is bullshit of the worst and most dangerous kind.

Well said

@MadameMinimes

Threads about race on mumsnet are always so depressing. Every time a black person talks about race publicly there are are threads like this. A black person talking about “white British nationalism” is not racist abuse FFS. It’s easy to say “I don’t see race” or “it doesn’t matter what race someone is to me” if your race has never been an issue for you. There is definitely an undercurrent of white British nationalism behind some of the celebration of Captain Tom. Just because you have been blissfully unaware of it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Racist groups often associate themselves with celebration of the armed forces and piggyback onto commemorative events and veterans issues to lend a veneer of respectability to their unpleasant politics. Britain First built a huge following on Facebook years ago by sharing huge numbers of “like this to show respect for our armed forces” and “share this in tribute to all those who died in the Great War” posts that were totally innocuous and non-racist to suck in people who they then pushed nasty racist propaganda to. It was their playbook... other groups are now doing that with Captain Tom related posts. This priest is entitled to feel uncomfortable about that. The undercurrent to threads like these is always that black people are the real racists and white people are the real victims of racism in Britain, which is bullshit of the worst and most dangerous kind.

I totally agree.

@MadameMinimes

Threads about race on mumsnet are always so depressing. Every time a black person talks about race publicly there are are threads like this. A black person talking about “white British nationalism” is not racist abuse FFS. It’s easy to say “I don’t see race” or “it doesn’t matter what race someone is to me” if your race has never been an issue for you. There is definitely an undercurrent of white British nationalism behind some of the celebration of Captain Tom. Just because you have been blissfully unaware of it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Racist groups often associate themselves with celebration of the armed forces and piggyback onto commemorative events and veterans issues to lend a veneer of respectability to their unpleasant politics. Britain First built a huge following on Facebook years ago by sharing huge numbers of “like this to show respect for our armed forces” and “share this in tribute to all those who died in the Great War” posts that were totally innocuous and non-racist to suck in people who they then pushed nasty racist propaganda to. It was their playbook... other groups are now doing that with Captain Tom related posts. This priest is entitled to feel uncomfortable about that. The undercurrent to threads like these is always that black people are the real racists and white people are the real victims of racism in Britain, which is bullshit of the worst and most dangerous kind.

Except he didn’t distinguish a particular following his comments were a sweeping judgement suggesting anybody showing appreciation was essentially a ‘white British nationalist’.

If the guy had been clear that images were being used to further those with white British Nationalist agendas then I’ve no doubt that his comments would have been supported by the majority. But he didn’t.

@MadameMinimes

Threads about race on mumsnet are always so depressing. Every time a black person talks about race publicly there are are threads like this. A black person talking about “white British nationalism” is not racist abuse FFS. It’s easy to say “I don’t see race” or “it doesn’t matter what race someone is to me” if your race has never been an issue for you. There is definitely an undercurrent of white British nationalism behind some of the celebration of Captain Tom. Just because you have been blissfully unaware of it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Racist groups often associate themselves with celebration of the armed forces and piggyback onto commemorative events and veterans issues to lend a veneer of respectability to their unpleasant politics. Britain First built a huge following on Facebook years ago by sharing huge numbers of “like this to show respect for our armed forces” and “share this in tribute to all those who died in the Great War” posts that were totally innocuous and non-racist to suck in people who they then pushed nasty racist propaganda to. It was their playbook... other groups are now doing that with Captain Tom related posts. This priest is entitled to feel uncomfortable about that. The undercurrent to threads like these is always that black people are the real racists and white people are the real victims of racism in Britain, which is bullshit of the worst and most dangerous kind.

Well said.

I think the timing was insensitive in terms of what is still a simple human bereavement, but it’s hard to know what to do with that when a human bereavement has taken on such symbolism!

Undercurrent, yes.

That needs calling out.

But this man looked at people of varying ethnicities and called them all white nationalists, as an insult.

He is absolutely racist.

isn’t the entire point here that the media is baying for a grovelling apology from this cleric when they HAVENT from boris who is our bloody PM. Can you not see the hypocrisy here???

Probably foolish of me to answer at all after the sneery "I think we both know the answer to that" / "Yes. Sigh", but actually I see the hypocrisy very clearly

However since I don't base my views on trashy media I'm not over-bothered what rubbish they pump out ... I might treat it as a spur to find out what's actually been said (as opposed to what's claimed) but that's all

I dunno, all this ‘but he’s tarring everyone with the same brush!!’ is a bit #NotAllMen, isn’t it?

@reformedcharacters Well no, he didn’t clarify, he went one step further and offered a full retraction and apology and yet some still want to suggest that he’s guilty of some sort of hate crime. It’s particularly galling that the people wanting him sacked or publicly flagellated for what he has said are the ones forever complaining that you “can’t say anything these days” because of “PC gone mad”.

?

That was to Nell

Get off your all lives matter bandwagon OP, tedious.

MadameMinimes

I doubt he retracted it because he thought ‘oh dear l think I may have come across a bit racist there’ he was made to retract it by his employers.

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

I dunno, all this ‘but he’s tarring everyone with the same brush!!’ is a bit #NotAllMen, isn’t it?

It's generally accepted that we don't make sweeping generalisations about race. Makes you look like a twat. But #Notalltwats

The point for me is that it should go without saying. Obviously not all people who were moved by the death of Captain Tom were racists, or were white, or whatever, just like not all men are misogynists. But it has to be ok to make some fairly general statements about phenomena without having to continually qualify it with that stuff. Because all of a sudden we’re talking about experiences of racism (as experienced by Black people) framed primarily to avoid upsetting white people. And here we are, predictable mumsnet, furious about white people being cast as racists, and not even stopping to think deeply for a moment about whether it’s experienced as racist by black people. The balance is way out of whack.

The hero worship of Tom Moore is partly because he is the epitome of white upper middle class ideals, it is quite right to question that.

Dabirul Choudhury didn't have nearly as much publicity, I wonder why that is?

We don't need to wonder, sadly we know

@trulydelicious

The cult of Captain Tom is a cult of White British Nationalism

I think someone who tweeted this should be stripped of their position of Church leadership

Very dangerous and offensive message

I agree with you but it's about white people so it's fine...

Is fragile nationalism becoming a thing now??

Totally agree with Nell