Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

It amazes me that a thread like this brings out all the ignorant self-entitled lot who don't care who they infect so long as they get to do what they please. This is why we need legislation to prevent these people from holding jobs where they can come into contact with others.

Maybe if they refuse the vaccine they should be told they are not permitted to apply for a vaccine for another 5 years. Let's see how many are willing to take their chances at orphaning their kids if they know they are turning down their chance for 5 years. That way you are not discriminating against anyone. You give them the chance, if they refuse, they rolls the dice and takes their chances.

Thankfully it will shortly come to an end being at nearly 1000 posts.

People should be free to be vaccinated if they want to be. If they are vaccinated then there is no need to be fearful of others who may or may not be vaccinated. Social distancing and more frequent hand-washing is effective, we should also perhaps keep doing that even afterwards.

Nobody should need to disclose their vaccination status either and certainly not to randoms who have no business knowing. It amazes me that some randoms feel entitled to this information but then, this is Mumsnet... not at all indicative of real life, thank goodness!

I will be glad when this thread is finished.

some randoms feel entitled to this information. Not randoms. The governments of entire countries already demand this information. Actually most on Yellow Fever, a lot on Polio too. Smallpox has thankfully all been eradicated , by vaccines and infection suppression. Bird Flu and Swine Flu were also targets for entitlement to this information. It will happen and it will happen for a reason, because other countries have gone to much greater lengths to eradicate the virus and protect their people. Actually pretty much every country in the world has done that better. To those who disagree with vaccination and think we should all take out chances, congratulations on living in the world outlier on that one....

@Emilyontmoor

some randoms feel entitled to this information. Not randoms. The governments of entire countries already demand this information. Actually most on Yellow Fever, a lot on Polio too. Smallpox has thankfully all been eradicated , by vaccines and infection suppression. Bird Flu and Swine Flu were also targets for entitlement to this information. It will happen and it will happen for a reason, because other countries have gone to much greater lengths to eradicate the virus and protect their people. Actually pretty much every country in the world has done that better. To those who disagree with vaccination and think we should all take out chances, congratulations on living in the world outlier on that one....

Governments already have this information. Randoms do not need it and are not entitled to it. Those who do not wish to have the vaccine themselves are not opposed to others having it so what's the issue?

Chatboards are not a primary source of information, just a barometer of intolerance and judgement going by this one.

@Emilyontmoor how do you think they’re measuring the effectiveness of the vaccine by the way? Antibody level perhaps?

@UserEleventyNine the vaccine isn’t the only way to achieve immunity. Anyone who contracts it and recovers (eg everyone in the last year) is also reducing transmission. They’re not stopping the vaccine from working - they’re also contributing to herd immunity.

@ElliFAntspoo

It amazes me that a thread like this brings out all the ignorant self-entitled lot who don't care who they infect so long as they get to do what they please. This is why we need legislation to prevent these people from holding jobs where they can come into contact with others.

Maybe if they refuse the vaccine they should be told they are not permitted to apply for a vaccine for another 5 years. Let's see how many are willing to take their chances at orphaning their kids if they know they are turning down their chance for 5 years. That way you are not discriminating against anyone. You give them the chance, if they refuse, they rolls the dice and takes their chances.

I’ll take that chance. Most people are probably more likely to orphan their kids with a missed cancer diagnosis than by contracting covid.

@ElliFAntspoo

It amazes me that a thread like this brings out all the ignorant self-entitled lot who don't care who they infect so long as they get to do what they please. This is why we need legislation to prevent these people from holding jobs where they can come into contact with others.

Maybe if they refuse the vaccine they should be told they are not permitted to apply for a vaccine for another 5 years. Let's see how many are willing to take their chances at orphaning their kids if they know they are turning down their chance for 5 years. That way you are not discriminating against anyone. You give them the chance, if they refuse, they rolls the dice and takes their chances.

Thank God your dumb and rather sinister ideas will never happen.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

Thankfully it will shortly come to an end being at nearly 1000 posts.

People should be free to be vaccinated if they want to be. If they are vaccinated then there is no need to be fearful of others who may or may not be vaccinated. Social distancing and more frequent hand-washing is effective, we should also perhaps keep doing that even afterwards.

Nobody should need to disclose their vaccination status either and certainly not to randoms who have no business knowing. It amazes me that some randoms feel entitled to this information but then, this is Mumsnet... not at all indicative of real life, thank goodness!

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Vaccinated people do have a need to be fearful of others who may or may not be vaccinated. If there are still high levels of a virus in a community, the virus will mutate, new variants will be formed. Our vaccines may not work against these new variants. Then we end up at square one dragging this pandemic out far longer than is necessary.

@bumbleymummy

If the other people on the plane are vaccinated then why are they at risk from an unvaccinated person? Perhaps because some of them are not immune from the vaccine? In which case they could also be putting people at risk. The unvaccinated person may actually be immune through having had the disease though. It's all a bit silly really. Virtue signalling.

As I understand it, any policy of this nature will allow for genuine exemptions, and obviously planes aren't going to refuse to carry babies who haven't yet been vaccinated. So if people who don't have genuine exemptions travel on the same plane, they increase the risk to those who do. It really isn't a difficult concept.

It isn't. Arobase doesn't understand the word 'communist'. When private commercial companies act in concert with government to enforce change in society, it is called 'fascism.'

You misread my post, @ElliFAntspoo. The bit in quotes came from someone else, not from me.

@bumbleymummy

There may be people on the plane who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons.

That’s true for lots of different diseases. The unvaccinated person is the person who is taking the risk by travelling.

But those "lots of different diseases" aren't pandemic diseases.

Are you saying that people who are genuinely exempt shouldn't travel just so as to allow vaccine deniers to do so?

The first sentence of point 1 of the Nuremberg Codes states: “The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential.“

So, no.

(In answer to the OP title thread)

If they are vaccinated then there is no need to be fearful of others who may or may not be vaccinated.

Can we be fearful on behalf of people we love who for various good reasons haven't been vaccinated?

So if people who don't have genuine exemptions travel on the same plane, they increase the risk to those who do. Not if they’re immune through natural infection. And the vaccinated person may not be immune. So in that case, the unvaccinated person is actually the lower risk passenger. It’s not really that difficult a concept.

Are you saying that people who are genuinely exempt shouldn't travel just so as to allow vaccine deniers to do so?

No, I’m saying they’re taking the risk to travel. Even if everyone else on the plane is vaccinated there is still a risk of some of them not being immune.

Government announce plans to introduce Vaccination Passports.

Well, that shut a lot of the muppet up, once and for all. But the government said this.... the government said that.... when will the muppets take your heads out of... grow the F up and start living in the real world?

Vaccine immunity is totally different to 'natural immunity'. The vaccines prime the immune system to act quicker and more effectively. This is why people with 'natural immunity' can catch it again.

news.sky.com/story/covid-people-getting-infected-twice-may-be-far-more-common-than-we-imagined-doctor-says-12208461

No doubt someone will come up with a way of forging the evidence, so no point IMO.
Pretty sure that the "passport" will be a number for your registration on some sort of centralized database, so I doubt this is something that can be forged.
Some vaccines like yellow fever have been mandatory for travel to some areas for years. There is nothing unprecedented about this.

It amazes me how many people live with their heads in the sand, believing the world will return to the way it was. I wonder if those people's grandparents were the same ones wishing the world would return the the 30's after WW2.

Why is it so hard to understand the concept of a world changing event? And surely for the sake of not FU your children, you need to get through your grief of the losing the way life was and start dealing with building a life in the real world now?

WTF are people doing to their kids? How many of them are scaring the F out of their kids, showing them terror reporting on the TV and telling them they are locked up forever?

If your TV is on 24/7 with endless discussion about how this is going on and on, and how no-one knows anything, and how people are starving and how its affecting the MH of kids, and how its all the fault of these people or those people, you are deliberately FU your kids mind with television programming. Put your TV out for the bin men. Buy some books, and read the news on your phone when your kids are in bed.

This is such a depressing thread, full of judgement and sneering. But great it’s almost done.

[quote ExpulsoCorona]Vaccine immunity is totally different to 'natural immunity'. The vaccines prime the immune system to act quicker and more effectively. This is why people with 'natural immunity' can catch it again.

news.sky.com/story/covid-people-getting-infected-twice-may-be-far-more-common-than-we-imagined-doctor-says-12208461[/quote]
Actually studies have shown that the antibodies from natural infection persist for 6-8+ months. We don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts although we do know that it isn’t 100% effective so some people who have the vaccine will still catch it.

Has the op ever come back????

We don't know how long vaccine immunity will last so they are developing boosters. People who are happy to have the vaccine will have these boosters and keep levels generally low amongst themselves in their community. People who are not happy to have the vaccine will keep spreading Covid amongst themselves and cause more mutations which will then make the vaccines and boosters harder to develop.

There are very few true medical exemptions to the vaccine but obviously if it's only those people not having the vaccine, levels will stay low so the chances of mutations will stay low.

On the point of the original thread, no one is going to make anything compulsory. We have to rely on people not being selfish.

Government plans to issue vaccination passports being widely reported in the press today. Better roll up your sleeve if you want to go abroad on your hols in future!