Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

@lightand

Perhaps vaccination status could be made to be a protected characteristic? Far-fetched, and I don't think it will be necessary, but still...

@Mumisnotmyonlyname

The difficulty in our town is that the anti vaxxers are the same people who socialise everywhere and don't give a damn

Perhaps, but this is absolutely not the case for all who need some more time to decide whether to take the vaccines or not.

Most are very careful with their health and have followed the guidance throughout to try and not catch or transmit Covid (I certainly have)

@lightand, where on earth do you get the idea that the law isn't the law until it's been tested in court or a tribunal? It simply isn't the case.

If we passed a law tomorrow saying that "Wearing a red hat is a criminal offence liable to imprisonment" would you imagine that you can happily wear a red hat and hope to argue, if charged, that the law doesn't mean what it says? All that would get you is a bigger penalty.

The Equality Act categories of protected characteristics are perfectly clear. If it makes you any happier, the Act has been in place for over ten years and has been pretty thoroughly tested anyway.

From this employment law barrister
www.youtube.com/c/DanielBarnettLaw?sub_confirmation=1

@Arobase

The Equality Act categories of protected characteristics are perfectly clear

Acts can be amended right?

Wont' be necessary, but you never know, if nutters insist on banning the few unvaccinated/late to be vaccinated people from society.

@Arobase
and from here

I think I posted this a few pages back in this thread

@pointythings

If you do not have the vaccine, how does forcing yourself upon other people who have no choice and cannot avoid you, leave or otherwise protect themselves fall under your understanding of 'freedom'?

We're struggling with this in our Trust. We do not want our staff forced to have the vaccine, but they work with some truly vulnerable people, and we cannot in all good conscience allow them to see patients in their own homes if they refuse vaccination. This has now come into acute focus because of the mounting evidence that the vaccine does reduce transmission.

We can't give all of them non-frontline jobs, so staff who refuse the vaccine are effectively refusing to be employable.

Put them on administrative leave and issue them with written warnings that you have been made aware that they are knowingly endangering the safety of the people in their care.

Then ask them if they will correct their behaviour, take all necessary precautions, and return to work vaccinated.

If they refuse, issue them with a final warning that they have told you that they are refusing to protect the people they are entrusted to care for, and in light of that they are de facto refusing to continue to care for people, and if they will not change their mind you will have no option but to terminate their employment.

Then sack them.

.

Either that of wait for one of them to be proven Covid positive, and then see what happens if people's families sue your company because they had the choice to provide vaccinated staff and unvaccinated staff, and your company chose to provide unvaccinated staff knowing that they were putting the vulnerable at risk.

I can't wait to see the first legal case of someone suing a care provider for deliberately providing carers who were unvaccinated, and likewise the first cases of AHs being terminated for being AHs.

ElliFAntspoo I agree with you, but then I'm an authoritarian (apparently ) because I think that under the exceptional circumstances of a global pandemic, people should be a bit less precious about their freedom to endanger others.
I wonder how many of those going on about 'freedom' happily voted Tory and approve of the Henry VIII powers the government have given themselves, which allow them to legislate without input from Parliament. There aren't enough for me to express how I feel about that bit of cognitive dissonance.

No. Some of them go on training courses, watch videos, answer multiple choice questions, and get little cerificates.

Well I have no clue how the carers who gave my FIL dignity and quality of life in his last months by caring, treating him with respect and finding the cognitive abilities still left that they could use to enrich his life after dementia robbed him of so many, acquired their skills, but I hope their “cerificate” is absolutely gigantic.

What a nasty reductive remark.

And I have certificates coming out of my ears, 5 of them postgrad, but I would still value theirs more.

@ElliFAntspoo

Some of them go on training courses, watch videos, answer multiple choice questions, and get little cerificates

You should pray you never need help from a carer

Happy to minimise the qualifications of anti vaxxers though. I had a debate with one who was a retired GP who tried to argue it was just flu with ONS graphs from September to March (when it was "just flu") and didn't understand why Coronavirus was different to the Swine Flu Influenza virus (again it was "just flu"). I assume his certificates are now beyond being seen with the naked eye.

@ElliFAntspoo believe what you want. I wouldn't be where I am without qualifications.

ElliFAntspoo if you knew the amount of training care workers inside and outside the NHS have to undertake, you wouldn't have posted that. Incredibly offensive and patronising.

ROFLMAO.
Practically my entire family are carers. One has accumulated 36 such certificates for this training course or that at last count. I am very familiar with the education system in the care system (well the care of the elderly anyways).

That aside, how do any of the self-righteous justify ever considering approaching an elderly person in your care if you have been offered and refused the vaccination.

That is the very definition of a selfish and ignorant individual who wishes to be paid to possibly infect and kill vulnerable people who cannot protect or defend themselves.

So much on here about people wanting to do what the f they like, and every one of them refusing to say whether or not they have power over others, whether or not they will continue to threaten to infect and kill people.

Personally if your husband or wife of child die as a result of you refusing to take a vaccine, that's their own fault for living with you. And if you meet someone in a park or a supermarket, that's their own fault for not protecting themselves.

But when you take it upon yourself to deliberately attempt to infect or kill vulnerable people who have no choice but have you force yourself upon them, (that's all you carers, nurses, teachers, police, ambulance staff, doctors, security guards), then the law needs to be changer to prevent you from working until you are vaccinated, and the law needs to be changed to prevent the companies who employ you from allowing you near victims.

Lets face it, there's plenty of cleaning you can do, and plenty of bins to be emptied. And if you refuse to work and refuse to protect the vulnerable in your care, then maybe Universal Credit will help you prioritise your family and the people you work with instead of yourself.

@ElliFAntspoo All staff where I work, have all had their vaccinations because we want to protect our residents. All residents have had theirs too.

All the government need to do is rumour that vaccination will be necessary for international travel. Most of the people who are refusing it for the wrong reasons will soon change their minds.

At the last census, 17% of uk did not own a passport.
fwiw, in the US, 58% dont.

The last census was 10 years ago. You also need to break that data down by age - how many people of working age don't own a passport? Bet it's less than 17%.

Add in those who will carry on refusing the vaccine, and there is a quite substantial number who will not go abroad for holidays. They will choose no vaccine above a holiday abroad.
Though there will be some with family abroad. But I guess, family could come to them instead.

@Zogstart

All the government need to do is rumour that vaccination will be necessary for international travel

The UK government has repeated numerous times that it has no plans to make Covid vaccines mandatory.

It's only some lunatics here who want to keep pushing the idea

I’m wondering if the people who would refuse the vaccine are also those who believe that only the old and clinically vulnerable should be locked down whilst the rest of society should be allowed to get on with their lives because their risk of having covid is much smaller 🤔

[quote vodkaredbullgirl]@ElliFAntspoo All staff where I work, have all had their vaccinations because we want to protect our residents. All residents have had theirs too.[/quote]
Bravo to you and your colleagues. You are saints. Wish I could buy you're a drink, but I'll raise a glass you instead.

@Zogstart

All the government need to do is rumour that vaccination will be necessary for international travel. Most of the people who are refusing it for the wrong reasons will soon change their minds.

Lol. You over estimate the number of people who leave the country on holiday and for business.