WHO urges Britain to pause covid jabs after treating the vulnerable

[Jay2020]

Link

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

I am beyond broken if this means we can't get to any kind of normality.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/covid-vaccine-racial-disparities-b1792991.html%3famp

I don't see how it's possible to just vaccinate all the worlds vulnerable although it sounds very noble.
Plus plenty of countries have different rollout priority orders.

And of course the rich ie the global
elite will not be at the back of the queue.

In principle I'd agree with WHO. Problem is that in practice it could be quite a long wait for all other countries to vaccinate their vulnerable populations- depending on health infrastructure, levels of corruption etc etc

Also given the extremely high death toll in the UK there needs to be a middle way in terms of keeping to the vaccination schedule we have in the UK while also contributing significantly to the global effort.

Fact is we won't be safe until the vaccine has been rolled out properly across the globe. The question for me is how we best get there in practical - not ideologically - terms.

I dont think I have the right or should have the right to be vaccinated before people who are more vulnerable than me in other countries just because I'm from a rich country.

But as someone from a rich country you enjoy lots of benefits that those from poorer countries don't. Would you be happy to forego treatment for relatively minor ailments if that money could provide essential care in a poor country?

As other countries have different vaccination agendas and don't prioritise vulnerable people like we have here, we've had a terrible death rate and full immunity protects everyone, and also considering people in this country may not be more important than anyone else but we're not less important either (as some posters need to learn), then given that we've funded and actually bought the vaccines then of course we get them. The EU had the same opportunity but didn't bother and is flailing around trying to blame everyone else. Any excess vaccines we have must go to countries that don't have the wealth to buy enough themselves. Why is this even a debate?

Sadly the WHO has lost a lot of credibility in my eyes and the eyes of many in the past year. They pandered to China at the beginning of the pandemic so it’s a bit rich for them to try to exercise pressure on the UK now. The head of the WHO hasn’t even stepped down and he should have, given his abysmal handling of COVID.

So I’ll take anything the WHO says with a grain of salt. Also there’s no way to impose these vaccination restrictions on high income countries. People won’t accept it. There’s no way in hell anyone in the US will accept delaying widespread vaccinations to allow low income countries to catch up so why would anyone in the UK? Also, what about a country like India? 1.4 billion people and a not very extensive healthcare infrastructure to vaccinate that population- it could take years to complete vaccination there. We can’t put the entire world economy on hold for one country. It’s just not sustainable.

I can see the logic fully in what the who is saying but politically if Boris said yeah we are stopping and other countries can have our vaccines there would be riots.

Plus to be honest I’m not sure all of the poorer countries will fully put the logistics in to administer it quickly. So it’s a bit more complex than let’s just give our doses to poorer countries.

@wafflyversatile I dont think I have the right or should have the right to be vaccinated before people who are more vulnerable than me in other countries just because I'm from a rich country.

Do you also have this issue with all other healthcare or education or food or water or a thousand other things that as a first world country we have access to that others around the world don't?

Do we deny ourselves and those within the UK or do we give our citizens these things and then help others?

But we have already started to ensure that poorer countries get vaccines as quickly as possible

Covax
20% of population, most vulnerable, vaccinated for free
AZ at cost
Medical teams already heading out to set up in anticipation of first vaccines

It isn't as if the UK pre ordered every vaccine and is now sat rubbing it's hands in glee!

And the infection rates show that countries currently in winter, with more densely populated areas and older demigraohics require vaccination more quickly than younger, hotter, less infected countries.

So... unless you think that equal is more important than equitable, we aren't being selfish, greedy etc if we carry on as we are... Just get vaccinated when your name is called!

[quote Kettledodger]@wafflyversatile I dont think I have the right or should have the right to be vaccinated before people who are more vulnerable than me in other countries just because I'm from a rich country.

Do you also have this issue with all other healthcare or education or food or water or a thousand other things that as a first world country we have access to that others around the world don't?

Do we deny ourselves and those within the UK or do we give our citizens these things and then help others?
[/quote]
I've asked this question many times on these discussions, including just above. I'm still to get an answer. Most of us de facto accept that we as citizens of rich countries enjoy many privileges that those from poorer countries don't. Why is this vaccine such an exception?

@kettledodger

"Do you also have this issue with all other healthcare or education or food or water or a thousand other things that as a first world country we have access to that others around the world don't?"

Yes I do. The world has enough resources to meet the needs of every human being on earth but instead we have a world where some starve while a handful of people could pay for everyone to be vaccinated and still be billionaires. I very much have a problem with that. Don't you?

There would be no gain from me refusing education or healthcare or a vaccine, however. None of those things would be redistributed if I did turn them down.

"I've asked this question many times on these discussions, including just above. I'm still to get an answer. Most of us de facto accept that we as citizens of rich countries enjoy many privileges that those from poorer countries don't. Why is this vaccine such an exception?"

I'm very aware that I have privilege from being in a rich country. I dont accept it is ok and the vaccination is not an exception.

@wafflyversatile

No I don't get too upset by it all. I refuse to have guilt piled on me through no fault of my own. If you choose to fine but don't berate anyone else who does not

@wafflyversatile

"I've asked this question many times on these discussions, including just above. I'm still to get an answer. Most of us de facto accept that we as citizens of rich countries enjoy many privileges that those from poorer countries don't. Why is this vaccine such an exception?"

I'm very aware that I have privilege from being in a rich country. I dont accept it is ok and the vaccination is not an exception.

But would you be happy if taxes used to pay for non-essential medical care for you and your family were diverted to pay for essential care in a poor country?

Do you only spend money on essentials such as food and shelter and donate all the rest to charity?

And it's not really a case of the vaccine not being needed just because you're low risk. On a population level, the more adults are vaccinated the better because an unvaccinated person could still pass on the virus to someone else who might become severely ill. Not everyone in the high risk groups can or will be vaccinated, and no vaccine offers complete immunity.

I've asked this question many times on these discussions, including just above. I'm still to get an answer. Most of us de facto accept that we as citizens of rich countries enjoy many privileges that those from poorer countries don't. Why is this vaccine such an exception?

I don’t disagree with you to be honest, the fact millions die from other diseases In poor countries just don’t make the news as much, and we do give a lot of aid.

The issue with this one I think is transmission, the who wants to stop it spreading, but poor counties are being supported.

And to be honest, if we keep going the way we are, we will also be a poor country,

Hello....testing... testing

Can you hear me mother?

"No I don't get too upset by it all. I refuse to have guilt piled on me through no fault of my own. If you choose to fine but don't berate anyone else who does not"

Lucky you're a have, not a have not then. I didnt ask if you get upset. Do you think it is right?

Waffly are you a have in other ways and what do you think that is right?

"But would you be happy if taxes used to pay for non-essential medical care for you and your family were diverted to pay for essential care in a poor country?

Do you only spend money on essentials such as food and shelter and donate all the rest to charity?

And it's not really a case of the vaccine not being needed just because you're low risk. On a population level, the more adults are vaccinated the better because an unvaccinated person could still pass on the virus to someone else who might become severely ill. Not everyone in the high risk groups can or will be vaccinated, and no vaccine offers complete immunity."

That's not really how it works is it. I would be happy to pay more taxes to help poorer people anywhere in the world but mostly I want systemic change.

No. I like nice things as much as anyone. I think everyone should have nice things. I do however also support charities and individuals less well off than me, particularly refugees.

I'm not particularly low risk.

@Kettledodger

Do you also have this issue with all other healthcare or education or food or water or a thousand other things that as a first world country we have access to that others around the world don't

She's calling for global communism, plain and simple

That's not really how it works is it. I would be happy to pay more taxes to help poorer people anywhere in the world but mostly I want systemic change.

Sure. But my point is that you're happy to accept that you as a citizen of a rich country enjoy benefits which those from poorer countries do not. So why the exception for Covid vaccines? If you agree that you should enjoy medical care for minor complaints while some people are denied essential care, why would you say that it's wrong that you should get a vaccine while someone in a 'poor country' does not?

"Sure. But my point is that you're happy to accept that you as a citizen of a rich country enjoy benefits which those from poorer countries do not. So why the exception for Covid vaccines? If you agree that you should enjoy medical care for minor complaints while some people are denied essential care, why would you say that it's wrong that you should get a vaccine while someone in a 'poor country' does not?"

This is not what I said. That is the opposite of what I said. This is what I said:

"I'm very aware that I have privilege from being in a rich country. I dont accept it is ok and the vaccination is not an exception."

Why is this even a debate?

Because this is Mumsnet. It’s not a debate anywhere else that I’ve seen.

Sadly the WHO has lost a lot of credibility in my eyes and the eyes of many in the past year. They pandered to China at the beginning of the pandemic

Again - is that you, Donald?

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I wouldn’t worry op, we don’t have a habit of slavishly following WHO advice.

I find this reassuring, thank you 😊

Waffly can’t you do more about it? In your job for example. Some people are contributing very much to lowering gap. You sound like you feel strongly.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

And when you are done there is America.......

I swear I'm going to climb through this screen and trash your laptop/phone/whatever the hell you're using!!!!!

I haven’t read the thread so don’t know what this is about but it really made me laugh 😆