Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

@Bluethrough yes your right they would have more if sorted first and I would hope we would then be taking up with the company concerned and not having digs at eu, infact when the eu had joint ppe order and uk decided not to join , people here were up in arms that they may get ppe first but that was directed at the government not the eu

[quote BelleHathor]Good article from the Spectator, the "Best effort" clause was too broad and no breach has occurred yet. www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-vaccine-row-shows-the-eu-doesn-t-understand-contract-law[/quote]
Yes that was the most informative article I've read, giving just the legal view of just how few legs the EU has to stand on.

@Bluethrough because our order was placed first. (And, incidentally, because the EU still hasn't approved the vaccine and so can't use it.)

In the same way, the UK is at the back of the queue for Moderna, because we ordered it late.

Or are you suggesting that the EU should share their Moderna order with the rest of the world, because time of ordering doesn't matter?

@Bluethrough

They’re making complete dicks if themselves and rightly so, questions will be asked as to why they didn’t order earlier etc..

Think about that?
If they had, we'd now have less & they'd have more, the supply issues Az appear to have wouldn't have gone away.

Yeah but we got in there first so we are priority - so not our issue is it....

Think about that?
If they had, we'd now have less & they'd have more, the supply issues Az appear to have wouldn't have gone away.

I think you are trying to base this constant anti uk stance on the 4 million doses figure out of the EU, which was never actually met.

It was a headline figure and early production issues only meant we got half a million (iirc).

I have work colleagues all over the EU and they are not even remotely at the level that you are that is trying to praise the EU and say that the UK should be doing more. Most are embarassed by what is happening and think it does not involve the UK at all, they are saying the only ones who are saying this are the uk equivilent of the Daily Mail/Sun tabloid readers.

After this blows over this will just result for you in namechanging and pretending non of this happened.

BelleHathor

Thanks for the link, it was a good article. It's unlikely AZ would agree terms which would leave them with such a huge liability if they couldn't deliver so it would seem the EU have nowhere to go with their complaint but will have made themselves look even more incompetent by making such a fuss.

Most people understand that when you screw up you ask for help with a degree of humility but the EU appears hell bent on antagonising everyone who could be useful to them. I hope for the sake of the EU population they rethink their approach. We all know the solution to our current predicament is global, getting bogged down in disputes which change nothing is pointless when there is the important work of finding a solution to be done.

That Spectator link is very good, thanks for sharing. I clicked through to read their other article about how today’s ruling from Germany on not using the AZ vaccine on over-65s has completely undermined the EU argument that they should get a share of the UKs quota - surely they should be prioritising the most vulnerable right now so they should be focussing on getting vaccine they will use on the over-65s, and not arsing about over a vaccine they won’t be able to use for several months.

It’s like going McDonald’s and ordering 10 meals for your party at 8pm. You pay yours money and they start bring out your food on the trays.

At 8.05pm another customer “Andy pandy” comes in and asks for 20 burgers for their large party. The staff say yes and he pays. Then they realise that there isn’t enough stock left so they can’t give 20 meals.

Andy pandy goes nuts and starts carrying on and shouting saying “well ‘Minne mouse’ shouldn’t be allowed all that food either” and that she should share. Then stomping to the door and refusing to let Minnie out....

I mean, it’s first come first serve. Nothing more nothing less. Andy pandy has got no right to stake claims on something Minnie has. If he wants to complain to the company fair enough but it’s sure he’ll not Minnies fault!!

No problem at all. I personally can't stand bullying, let alone the threat to withhold the Pfizer doses being exported. It's very cruel in this climate knowing people are already scared and mental health is very fragile. I feel sorry for all the people who may see this on the news and worry about their second doses, it's irresponsible.

@TableFlowerss
Andy Pandy sounds like a complete cunt!

The EU have shown themselves to be completely embarrassing. Two take away points here for third parties assessing and considering trade deals with them:

1. They dont understand the concept of contracts
2. When things dont go their way they create export bans
3. They have no problems with causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands to make a political point

Make that THREE points

@TableFlowerss

It’s like going McDonald’s and ordering 10 meals for your party at 8pm. You pay yours money and they start bring out your food on the trays.

At 8.05pm another customer “Andy pandy” comes in and asks for 20 burgers for their large party. The staff say yes and he pays. Then they realise that there isn’t enough stock left so they can’t give 20 meals.

Andy pandy goes nuts and starts carrying on and shouting saying “well ‘Minne mouse’ shouldn’t be allowed all that food either” and that she should share. Then stomping to the door and refusing to let Minnie out....

I mean, it’s first come first serve. Nothing more nothing less. Andy pandy has got no right to stake claims on something Minnie has. If he wants to complain to the company fair enough but it’s sure he’ll not Minnies fault!!

And Andy Pandy hasn't even made up if his mind if he even wants the burger yet.

@IcedPurple
And as he stands in the doorway, he's ranting and raving about how Minnie said she didnt want to play with him anymore

[quote CrotchBurn]@IcedPurple
And as he stands in the doorway, he's ranting and raving about how Minnie said she didnt want to play with him anymore[/quote]

And throwing a hissy fit because Minnie is getting her homework done quickly while he still hasn't even opened his books.

2) When things dont go their way they create export bans

It's a bit of a stupid thing to do if you want to promote trade. Presumably companies will have to think carefully about whether they can afford the risk of setting up manufacturing operations in an EU country in the future. The self defeating nature of their threats is baffling.

Many people will conclude that they’d rather not be part of an organization that behaves in the way the EU has done

Actually some of us came to that realisation years ago, but I take your point

Somebody please correct me if this was AZ instead, but I thought Pfizer already said that there'd be a hold up in production around now because they were expanding the facility or something?
If so, won't this square the circle once (much larger) production resumes, or will the EU still thcweam and thcweam because they can't have what they want right now?

Getting bogged down in disputes which change nothing is pointless when there is the important work of finding a solution to be done

Ah, but it offers the bureaucrats a chance to cover their backsides, which is after all the important thing

@BelleHathor - it's true that it will worry some people and that's awful. I agree with MHRA/ JCVI on delaying the second dose to get more people vaccinated at minimal risk to original vaccinated people, BUT I worry that we shat on our chips as far as Pfizer are concerned by telling instead of discussing it with them. I expect they'll make good our order from elsewhere eventually, but worry we might be waiting a long while (and not even need it by then).

For contrast, DP are delighted because they wanted the Oxford Astrazeneca vaccine but got Pfizer (slight mRNA nerves, though they went ahead), appear today to have happily decided that one of each is probably far superior anyway. DM suggests the NHS should offer anyone who got Pfizer to pick if they want second dose Pfizer or Oxford AZ, which might reduce the problem. (She doesn't seem remotely phased that this isn't tested.) Possibly not a bad idea if it comes to it, at least it might reduce the total number of people who are actively upset.

Interesting that the Spectator described NS as hosting 'her own daily tv show'.

Ah, but it offers the bureaucrats a chance to cover their backsides, which is after all the important thing

Depressing but almost certainly correct. We were told all through the Brexit negotiations that the EU were the grown ups in the room!

@FOJN after seeing what they are currently doing, I doubt they was very grown up about it

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-syringes-idUSKBN29Q2CK

Something they can't blame the UK on and is just another string to the bow of how Europeans are generally becoming frustrated.

We need to stop fighting and every country needs to look at factories that could quickly be converted to vaccine factories.

@cyclingmad

Succinct summary of why the EU fucked up basically:

Over the summer, under Mrs von der Leyen and the Commission’s health chief, the Cypriot Stella Kyriakides, the EU made a series of devastating strategic errors. It ordered 300 million doses of a vaccine manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline-Sanofi, a drug that then stumbled in trials.

It spent the summer haggling over the price for the Pfizer/BioNTech jab, ordering sizeable shipments only in November.

Britain, meanwhile, ordered 40 million doses of the same vaccine in July; America put in for 600 million.

Disgracefully, the EU has still not approved the ‘game-changing’ Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine — which is both cheap and can be stored in a standard refrigerator.

They took too long approving the Astrazenca vaccine, instead putting all their eggs in two baskets and Macron was heavily pushing for the French vaccine which won't be ready until end of this year!

Pfizer having to upgrade their production facilities in Belgium aswell.

Meanwhile we are cracking on and Bojo is already starting discussions with Johnson and Johnson on the one jab vaccine ..again getting in their first. Bet you mt house the EU will be yet again months behind.

Because of all the EU issues, countries like Germany basically splinting off and buying vaccines anyway, making a mockery of the whole point of being an EU member.

So there you have it, had we still been in the EU we would be so much worse off right now, be so far behind in getting out of this quickly. Meanwhile we're cracking on and there you can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel.

This is a great example that leave voters can now point oo as to why many of them wanted to leave!!

We have taken back control, we determine our fate and thank god Bojo is doing the right thing in getting orders in for mutilated of vaccines, the funding and now already looking to add another vaccine to the list.

Covid is destroying our economy more than Brexit

👏 👏

And those saying we should vaccinate our vulnerable and then let other countries have the excess vaccine - how would you feel giving the vaccines to country X which then says well with these vaccines, we won’t vaccinate the elderly, we’ll vaccinate our workers.