Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

Interesting read from Biontech
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/france-to-step-up-covid-jabs-after-claims-of-bowing-to-anti-vaxxers

Breaking News: The EU has finally got around to approving the AZ vaccine for all adult age groups.

But what about death rates? Yup, him in charge.

I don’t think he was disputing that? Saying that you take full responsibility for something is stating that you’re fully responsible for both the good and the bad. And I don’t think Boris would describe 100,000 deaths as good, do you?

Incidentally though, it’s not just Boris - the members of the public who’ve repeatedly broken (and continue to break) the rules bear a huge responsibility in all of this as well.

It's still unecessary bluster. Utterly illogical!

And did the UK 'block' exports or prioritise them?

@IcedPurple

Breaking News: The EU has finally got around to approving the AZ vaccine for all adult age groups.

Oh wow so 65 plus included?

After all that

Breaking News: The EU has finally got around to approving the AZ vaccine for all adult age groups.

So it’s approved for all age groups in all states except Germany then. About fecking time.

Breaking News: The EU has finally got around to approving the AZ vaccine for all adult age groups

FFS. What the fuck? The reputational damage to az and the drop in vaccine confidence in the people who are, you know, the ones dying is unfathomable - for what?

*Oh wow so 65 plus included?

After all that*

Seems so. It's breaking news so details still coming in, but Sky News said there appears to be no age limits in the authorisation. I guess the Germans have wangled themselves enough Pfizer so they feel they can afford to be 'picky' about vaccine allocation?

Unsurprising - EMA and MHRA were essentially the same thing until very recently, and there is no perceptible difference between the staff standards, qualifications or working approach.

You'd need an insider to know why pace of working seems to have varied, but I'm assuming time to outcome is influenced by time that application is lodged and that's outwith both agencies' control.

@meditrina

Unsurprising - EMA and MHRA were essentially the same thing until very recently, and there is no perceptible difference between the staff standards, qualifications or working approach.

You'd need an insider to know why pace of working seems to have varied, but I'm assuming time to outcome is influenced by time that application is lodged and that's outwith both agencies' control.

As I understand it, the UK gave an emergency authorisation, whereas the EU has given a 'conditional' one?

Remember all the tut-tutting about how 'reckless' Britain was being in granting the authorisation? And yet here we are a full 5 precious weeks later, and the EU has done the same thing. Only with fewer vaccines at their disposal, and 5 more weeks lost.

Good that EMA have approved all age groups but how ridiculous all that press briefing and Germany’s intervention before hand.
Presumably German could have said nothing but just only used Oxford for their under 65’s and no one would cared, but to come out with their own assessment the day before EMA does, strikes of an attempt to influence the EMA or why bother to do it?

@IcedPurple I think they amount to alternate names for the same type of approval.

how ridiculous all that press briefing

Quite. It’s somewhat reminiscent of a certain former US President TBH.

@sashagabadon

Good that EMA have approved all age groups but how ridiculous all that press briefing and Germany’s intervention before hand. Presumably German could have said nothing but just only used Oxford for their under 65’s and no one would cared, but to come out with their own assessment the day before EMA does, strikes of an attempt to influence the EMA or why bother to do it?

Yes. Timing is highly suspicious. As was the 'leak' a few days ago from a 'German government source' about how it only had an efficiency rate of 8%.

IcedPurple
And that's precisely why, as has been shown several times, the EU is useless in a crisis.

Oh, the irony. How about protecting people's lives? The crisis hasn't been dealt with well when you look at UK death rates, they are world beating. No, Boris will take the glory and overlook the failures.

Sometimes, being slower and cautious is good, sometimes bad. The Eat out to Help out scheme was rash and poorly thought through with devastating consequences. On the other hand, the UK has dragged its heels on foreign arrivals. The EU certainly has lost the initiative on the vaccines, but was able to collectively purchase PPE last year when the whole world and the UK were scrambling for it. Remember the UK millions wasted on private jets and dubious middlemen?

Oh, the irony. How about protecting people's lives?

Exactly. Like being prepared to take the risk of buying up huge numbers of vaccines from a variety of sources in advance, and then granting prompt approval. The EU failed in this and now trying to deflect from those abject failures.

I also think the 12 week gap between doses looks particularly wise now. Quite a few countries dismissed that openly and proudly stated that they would be following “the manufacturer’s guidelines”

'Dubious middle men' included the woman who spread a huge amount of money over a number of vaccines.

Money that was set aside as part of the Pandemic Plan we were supposed not to have

Etc etc etc etc.

There is no known right/wrong still and the combative nature of any discussion is ludicrous.

Let's just hope that the loud and angry voices will be reassured and prevented from pushing for more offensive measures.

@sashagabadon

I also think the 12 week gap between doses looks particularly wise now. Quite a few countries dismissed that openly and proudly stated that they would be following “the manufacturer’s guidelines”

They are idiots then!

From an interview with the AZ CEO:

Oxford University conducted the so-called Oxford trial in UK and Brazil, and we have data for patients who received the vaccine in one-month interval, 2 or 3 months interval. First of all, we believe that the efficacy of one dose is sufficient: 100 percent protection against severe disease and hospitalisation, and 71-73 percent of efficacy overall. The second dose is needed for long term protection. But you get a better efficiency if you get the 2nd dose later than earlier.

There is no reason to believe that the Pfizer won't behave similarly to the oxford

So approval for all ages means that the EU is going to be under pressure to provide maximum amounts of vaccine so are they likely to increase the pressure on AZ?

I hope that results such as that are shouted loudly and widely.

There was such a vehement reaction to that news of the 'delay' between vaccines, so many people frightened by the media spin. No amount of explanation, here or from a podium, reassured many of those angry/ scared posters.

It would be good to have that information widely shared to reassure. And I have no idea how to start it as I don't want to be seen as doing the "I told you so!" thing.

But there are many still worried people who still think the delay us a guaranteed negative thing.

Fuck did I just hear that the EU have banned exports of Covid vaccine manufactured in the EU? What does that mean for Pfizer ones?

@Waspnest

Fuck did I just hear that the EU have banned exports of Covid vaccine manufactured in the EU? What does that mean for Pfizer ones?

It's export monitoring (at the moment) rather than a ban

I'm watching the news... waiting for the headlines to roll round...

EU gives member states more control of exports of covid vaccine.

Not sure what that actually means though