Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

@justanotherneighinparadise

Afaik it’s everyone. Spanish media is reporting that Israel and uk have stolen their vaccines hence why they’re so far ahead

Wow, so we’re adding some anti-semitism in too?

Israel is the country that is doing the best in the world hence why they're "stealing" the vaccines from others, nothing related with semitism. The truth is that Israel had a really good deal with Pfizer so they go enough vacs and quickly enough to vac everyone. this was a deal between pfizer and Israel. Israel hasn't received moderna nor az which they're going to keep for the future once everyone is vaccinated.

www.politico.eu/article/israel-coronavirus-vaccine-success-secret/

however, eu needs to blame others at the end of the day for not having enough vacs for themselves.. so they're blaming those that are doing well in their media

In all seriousness, blocking Pfizer exports from Belgium could be a real issue because all non-USA deliveries go from there, so Pfizer will lose all control over their ability to get contractual obligations. Every country would have to go through the EC to get any doses, it's not just the UK. I really hope the EC don't take that approach.

EU overreach. I can't believe how many posters here think their approach is perfectly understandable. I find it sinister.

"We are just sending in inspectors to check you really do have production issues.."

By here I meant all of MN not this thread!

@MRex

In all seriousness, blocking Pfizer exports from Belgium could be a real issue because all non-USA deliveries go from there, so Pfizer will lose all control over their ability to get contractual obligations. Every country would have to go through the EC to get any doses, it's not just the UK. I really hope the EC don't take that approach.

It feels like a show of flexing political muscle is overriding commercial concerns. Needing authorisation is a potential barrier.

@LetItGoGo

Pfizer expect to get back delivering as much as expected very soon and then exceed delivery targets by end of the quarter.

Any situation should be a matter of weeks. Which is not ideal in a pandemic but frankly such a GOOD vaccine situation seemed unlikely a few months ago.

It's horrible politicking imo.

Agree horrible politicking.

From what ive seen (and posted on one of the many threads on the subject) the situation has largely been resolved. Az are going to publish redacted contracts today with agreement with the Eu after their lawyers have green lighted it.

Az has also found more supplies to send to the eu to appease anger. No detail on where it was coming from but nothing to suggest it was from uk production.

Also pfizer / bioNtech have resolved production issues 3 weeks earlier than expected.

None of this ive seen published in the British press. It was in a German newspaper (Thanks BCF!).

Its definitely now serving the uk agenda to let the anger towards the eu get out of control. There isnt anything being done to calm things down. Which should be.

I think it’s frightening if the EU are going to check every order going out of the EU, can you imagine how long that will take? That benefits no one, it will just hold up production for everyone, what a way to behave 🙄

Bullies get their way.

I had very similar on a tiny scale in a previous job.

@LetItGoGo

By here I meant all of MN not this thread!

Yes. I popped over to the Westminsters thread on MN to see if the pro-EU stance had taken a knocking or been modified. Not a bit of it. EU can still do pretty much no wrong while UK govt can do nothing right. Plus ca change.

@Wildswim

Where does all this leave NI which has an open land border with ROI? NI's vaccination programme, like the rest of the UK, is steaming ahead, while the ROI is far slower, has now stalled and is going to take months longer as they're part of the EU programme.

So what will happen when NI is vaccinated and ROI is not? Both are currently under lockdown, and the north will surely be ready to come out of it sooner. They can't close the border though.

I’ve seen support on this thread and online to support RoI with vaccinations given the common travel area. The U.K. should definitely offer but whether RoI accept and the reaction from the EU is another matter.

Another good suggestion I’ve seen is set up a vax centres on NI side of the border and vaccinate any people from RoI if they can get there. Not a panacea to the issue but offers a part solution.
EU can’t close the border and can’t see how they would sanction individuals for getting the vaccine. I’m sure they would be furious though, mainly because of the optics. But for me, the bigger issue is helping RoI citizens given the good progress we’ve made in NI.

Yes. I popped over to the Westminsters thread on MN to see if the pro-EU stance had taken a knocking or been modified. Not a bit of it. EU can still do pretty much no wrong while UK govt can do nothing right. Plus ca change.

Still? Blimey

Yes. I popped over to the Westminsters thread on MN to see if the pro-EU stance had taken a knocking or been modified. Not a bit of it. EU can still do pretty much no wrong while UK govt can do nothing right. Plus ca change

Same, was very surprised the issue was barely being discussed as well.

Bullies get their way

Yep. It'll work in the short term, but in the long term this will all come back to bite the EU.

@Baileysforchristmas

I think it’s frightening if the EU are going to check every order going out of the EU, can you imagine how long that will take? That benefits no one, it will just hold up production for everyone, what a way to behave 🙄

That's a worst case interpretation

It could be a simple document check, that wouid make no perceptible difference (pretty normal export procedures)

I have found events over these past few days illuminating. I think the EU's great trade agreement competency might be all a bit smoke and mirrors, given how badly this is going for them. Individual member states seem to be kicking back quite determinedly now.

I am so glad we were not caught up in it

EU has some very staunch supporters on MN.

Ireland is an obvious area for seeking cooperation.

@Ohthatsgreat - a UK vaccine centre for RoI to get to, that's a very funny idea. Imagine the photos! I think few things would make the EC more angry, it would definitely be calmer for future relations to hand over doses than be seen to rub noses in it.

[quote MRex]@Ohthatsgreat - a UK vaccine centre for RoI to get to, that's a very funny idea. Imagine the photos! I think few things would make the EC more angry, it would definitely be calmer for future relations to hand over doses than be seen to rub noses in it.[/quote]
Yes a good point. It’s sad that it’s come to those kind of ideas to help RoI because no one knows how the EU will react.

Does any one wonder if Tusk and verhofstadt would have done a better job? They just seemed more experienced political operators.

I’ve seen support on this thread and online to support RoI with vaccinations given the common travel area. The U.K. should definitely offer but whether RoI accept and the reaction from the EU is another matter.

I agree with you, UK needs to help out and would be willing to, but I'm not sure I can see ROI accepting. Its government gets massive mileage out of being seen to be a really valued member of 'the club' and close to the top levels of the EU (eg during Brexit negotiations) and its EU identity is hugely important. Accepting aid from the UK may not be something that they would even contemplate.

I'm not seeing any criticism of the EU in the Irish media over all this, for example. It's barely been reported.

www.euronews.com/2021/01/29/eu-astrazeneca-row-von-der-leyen-hits-back-at-vaccine-maker-saying-contract-crystal-clear

It doesn't feel like this has calmed down, the press reporting is all over the place. I really just don't understand this EU idea. The suggestion seems to be that Astrazeneca exported vaccine around the world for lots of cash, breaking their patent even though they are financially audited in the UK. Astrazeneca decided to give doses to one contract partner UK instead of another EC, even though that wasn't the terms of their contracts, they just thought they'd do it anyway. Then they lied publicly saying 2 EU factories had yield issues, especially the one run by a third party Novasep. What would be "in it" for Novasep the company and staff to not have gone to the media to counteract this if they produced a great product? Another company is lying to international media using their name and saying their product wasn't up to snuff, said company having sold it for profit, so their own friends and family might get delayed vaccine, but nobody says a word. REALLY? This is the set of factors that looks likely to the EC rather than "new manufacturing process hit snags and will be delayed by a few weeks"? I'm just more confused each time I read new EC statements.

@LetItGoGo

EU overreach. I can't believe how many posters here think their approach is perfectly understandable. I find it sinister.

"We are just sending in inspectors to check you really do have production issues.."

I can believe it as most if not all of them will be angry Remainers. Any excuse to bash the UK basically.

El Pais are quite damning: "An explanation of the delay in vaccinations in the European Union - Five factors motivate the European slowness in immunization: few doses were ordered, late, without early authorization, opaque contracts were signed and there is a less dynamic industrial policy".
"An explanation for the delay in vaccinations in the European Union | Opinion | THE COUNTRY" elpais.com/opinion/2021-01-27/una-explicacion-del-retraso-en-las-vacunaciones-en-la-union-europea.html

@Wildswim

I’ve seen support on this thread and online to support RoI with vaccinations given the common travel area. The U.K. should definitely offer but whether RoI accept and the reaction from the EU is another matter.

I agree with you, UK needs to help out and would be willing to, but I'm not sure I can see ROI accepting. Its government gets massive mileage out of being seen to be a really valued member of 'the club' and close to the top levels of the EU (eg during Brexit negotiations) and its EU identity is hugely important. Accepting aid from the UK may not be something that they would even contemplate.

I'm not seeing any criticism of the EU in the Irish media over all this, for example. It's barely been reported.

I am sure RoI would accept an offer of help. We are too inter connected. So many people in the south have close family members in the north and/ or in England. If it came out that the U.K. had offered doses and the RoI government had declined them it would go down like a lead balloon. At the moment my elderly

[quote MRex]El Pais are quite damning: "An explanation of the delay in vaccinations in the European Union - Five factors motivate the European slowness in immunization: few doses were ordered, late, without early authorization, opaque contracts were signed and there is a less dynamic industrial policy".
"An explanation for the delay in vaccinations in the European Union | Opinion | THE COUNTRY" elpais.com/opinion/2021-01-27/una-explicacion-del-retraso-en-las-vacunaciones-en-la-union-europea.html[/quote]
im glad el Pais is reporting this, it's the 1st time I see something like this in the Spanish media, they're too busy saying how uk is stockpiling whilst there is people dying. it's the 1st time I see mentioning some of the errors of the EU

At the moment my elderly uncles and aunts in the south are watching their brothers and sisters and in some cases adult children in the north and England being vaccinated.

Is that London area? I saw that their % of over 80s done was lowest.