Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

God only knows where from here?

The truly sad bit is that if they all just shut up and had a coffee AZ have always said they will be able to meet their March deadline for enough vaccine for the EU to vaccinate the over 80s. They will just have a short hiatus at the beginning of the roll out - just as we did!

If the EU had just given the same "We must wait a short while, manufacturing at this level means there will always be a few issues" platitudes the UK government did we wouldn't know they were late in commissioning, haven't passed AZ for use yet etc etc etc.

I have no idea why this blew up! It seems really odd, unproductive, self destructive, somehow!

I have no idea why this blew up! It seems really odd, unproductive, self destructive, somehow!

Its fairly obvious why. The UK is streaking ahead and this being a mere month after Brexit, the EU cannot allow the UK to succeed in gaining such an advantage because
a) It undermines the whole 'leaving the EU is a recipe for disaster' narrative, and
b) The sooner a country rolls out vaccination, the sooner it can get back to being economically productive and the EU needs to have the UK straggling to teach it its 'Brexit financial lesson'.

Basically, the EU is happy to waste money, time, and human lives on ensuring countries understand that to leave the EU is to suffer .

I was meaning more of the U.K. had found itself in a position to the EU ( whereas the U.K. didn’t quite as it had ordered doses earlier). I don't think there would be so much of a reaction. That lady that everyone hated last year - Kate someone in an investment company, who had been given a lot of money - turns out to have been something of a shero!

We have other vaccines, her spread betting worked out really well for us!

The EU weren't as lucky, or as free with their money.

Again, this was down to the government response to the Pandemic Plan (the one journalists/ people insist they totally ignored). They kept billions of pounds available and then they didn't hesitate to spend it!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

God only knows where from here?

The truly sad bit is that if they all just shut up and had a coffee AZ have always said they will be able to meet their March deadline for enough vaccine for the EU to vaccinate the over 80s. They will just have a short hiatus at the beginning of the roll out - just as we did!

If the EU had just given the same "We must wait a short while, manufacturing at this level means there will always be a few issues" platitudes the UK government did we wouldn't know they were late in commissioning, haven't passed AZ for use yet etc etc etc.

I have no idea why this blew up! It seems really odd, unproductive, self destructive, somehow!

But Germany i read only one source they don't want EMA to approve the az for anyone over 65. So how can the EU vaccinate its most vulnerable without an alternative vaccine. They will have some phizer but not enough. If they don't approve az for elderly but want supply immediately groups do they want to vaccinate? Health workers? Under 65? Moderna not arriving until March.

@CrotchBurn Oops! I stepped back into human thinking, took my political hat off. You are right, there is a wider political perspective at work!

@3asAbird it's hard to keep up with all the wrinkles isn't it?

But Germany i read only one source they don't want EMA to approve the az for anyone over 65.
So how can the EU vaccinate its most vulnerable without an alternative vaccine.

It's not clear if the German decision applies to the rest of the EU.

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@CrotchBurn Oops! I stepped back into human thinking, took my political hat off. You are right, there is a wider political perspective at work![/quote]
But from a decent human being perspective, your post was absolutely spot-on. My feelings are exactly the same. And I’m really, really pissed off with the situation - it’s made me look at the EU in a whole new light.

Checked again and the whole "estimated delivery schedule" is redacted and subject to final delivery schedule agreement and regulatory approval.

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@3asAbird it's hard to keep up with all the wrinkles isn't it?[/quote]
Extremely they want it now but they not approved it.
Speculation that they won't approve it for the elderly so who they think is immediate priority for vaccination is an important question to raise given that uk hasent completed all its over 80s yet and is taking a gamble with the time between doses in order to vaccinate more vulnerable people faster.

Theres no winners in this situation.
This argument despite the hostility and eu publishing a confidential contract.
I'm not at all scientific but to me the vaccines have always had some uncertainty.
How effective they will be. How much each factory can produce seems highly variable and based on a number of different factors.
Uk only knows this too well we haven't had enough phizer. We had issues with yields of az at beginning.
We got in on moderna later in the game so won't get that until March and assume EU same as they have exclusive contract with USA first to fulfill yet they not accusing USA being selfish.

I think this 6vials of phizer causing some slow down issues within the eu roll out programme.

What I am baffled about is whats sky said this morning.
Oxford az giving them immediate 8million doses.
Who's order is this being taken from to use this to appease the EU?
Do they have non allocated backstock?

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-brussels-has-binding-orders-for-astrazeneca-jab-says-eu-chief-12201916

just seen moderna is going to delay the order they had to Italy... why aren't things blowing with pfizer and moderna despite they keep missing their deadlines?

Yes. They are insisting that the Best Effort clause only came into effect if AZ couldn't produce ANY VIABLE VACCINE an that as they can they have a binding immmediate contract!

They aren't referring back to the same hold up the UK, US etc had; they are not allowing any leeway for the reality of the situation and most of all they are not actually listening to anyone, least of all AZ!

There is a very straight line, no deviation, thought process evident there!

@EasterIssland

just seen moderna is going to delay the order they had to Italy... why aren't things blowing with pfizer and moderna despite they keep missing their deadlines?

That's nice, keep it within the EU!

The EU still think they are in the right and demanding their order is met, it’s in the Guardian

Okay so what do you think of this strategy (I'm working on the premise that a company like this can have its strings pulled by governments, in this case the UK government):

If the EU ends up steamrolling AZ into defeat, then how about AZ says that clearly it has no choice but to supply the EU now - however, to make up for losses caused by the EU disrupting supply schedules like this, it will now no longer be able to supply its vaccines at cost to poorer parts of the world (obviously it doesnt have to utlimately go through with this, but maybe it can damage the EU's reputation and/or shame it into relenting)

Oh god no! The at cost thing, and the 20% for free, is vital, not a tool for blackmail. The high ground has to be maintained!

As far as I can see AZ has to stick to the very tight legal argument. Mainly so that when all this is done and dusted (however it turns out), the EU and everyne else will have had a salutary lesson in how not to act in a pandemic.

It really doesn't matter who is right or wrong. The EU response has been, still is being, totally out of all proportion.

The EU also didn’t order any of the new Nova vaccine. We ordered 60m doses back in August. I mean what happened? Did they take their eye off the ball? Were they too busy ordering Macrons jab that showed early signs of failing? I don’t get this.

It’s just looking worse and worse

Baffling lack of sense from the EU.

No wonder they are trying to put the blame on anyone and everyone else. I think even passive me would want to be shouting at these 'world leaders'.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum I really hope they stop blaming the U.K. My brother in law in the NL has already accused us of stealing their vaccines. Wtf. A vaccine not even approved yet that we bought fair and square.

I heard the novo CEO in the radio earlier. They are in talks with EU but first doses to the U.K..
I bet he is quickly reviewing their contracts so they don’t end up in this farce.
Why would anyone want to do business with the EU when they threaten you, release confidential contracts and brief against you in the press - for producing a vaccine in a pandemic at lightening speed that everyone wants ( and in the case of AZ selling for no profit )

@Blessex

The EU also didn’t order any of the new Nova vaccine. We ordered 60m doses back in August. I mean what happened? Did they take their eye off the ball? Were they too busy ordering Macrons jab that showed early signs of failing? I don’t get this.

Not sure where you are getting that info from.

Natasha Loder @natashaloder (The Economist)
^Our great piece on the @EuropeanCommiss & @AstraZeneca
row this week. It points out that the EU signed deals months after Britain and America.^

It is worth adding that the same problem happened with the @Novavax order...

Britain did a deal in August for 60m doses that could arrive in the first quarter of this year. It will be manufactured in Billingham. Excess supply will be available for export. The EU did a deal with Novovax but in December of last year; there is a site in Spain.

There is also an EU site in the Czech Republic too I believe.

J&J have just announced that their vaccine is effective too though. So thats ALSO a boost.

I disagree that it is 'getting worse and worse'. I'm of quite the opposite opinion tbh.

What happened was that Kate Bingham (I looked her up) the procuring lady spent the billions that the UK government had set aside as part of its pandemic planning.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/10/pr-firm-hired-by-uk-vaccine-tsar-linked-to-dominic-cummings-father-in-law

She may have been connected to DC, much reviled at one point, but she did a bloody good job for us!

@sashagabadon

I heard the novo CEO in the radio earlier. They are in talks with EU but first doses to the U.K.. I bet he is quickly reviewing their contracts so they don’t end up in this farce. Why would anyone want to do business with the EU when they threaten you, release confidential contracts and brief against you in the press - for producing a vaccine in a pandemic at lightening speed that everyone wants ( and in the case of AZ selling for no profit )

AZ have also agreed to publically release the redacted contracts. They've found extra supplies for the EU too.

Not widely reported in the UK.

So what if the EU don’t approve AZ for the over 65’s, will that effect the contract?