Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

Sacha so sorry I'm doing too many things at once. Apologies for misreading.

Yes sorry I wasn’t clear. I meant south being RoI and north being NI.
But yes maybe there is disrepancy between the north and south of London, another thing we can all argue about

No it was obvious what you meant if I'd scrolled back ever so slightly and was like actually taking proper notice! No multitasking skills here.

AZ EU contract published

ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_302

34Ohthatsgreat

Thanks :)

And it does actually say Best Reasonable Efforts!

Could it be a misunderstanding as to what best reasonable efforts actually means. Eu think it includes diverting doses from non EU factories and AZ mean within their own EU supply chain?

So is this now down to public opinions and public interpretation of Contract Law? This is not right.

@LenaBlack

34Ohthatsgreat

Thanks :)

And it does actually say Best Reasonable Efforts!

does it also it'd use the uk's place to manufacture the best reasonable efforts? Also what EU media is saying that BRE aren't being fulfilled because they're diverting the doses from EU to UK (around 70m)

The use of capitals means that Best Reasonable Efforts is a defined term so it should be clear what it means.

Ah! So that's why the AZ man stopped talking. He knew that the document was due out of the solicitors and he would have no need to defend their position any more.

Maybe thise spinning it to mean he was scared his lies would be exposed would care to offer an apology? But maybe not!

WHEREAS, as part of that scale-up, AstraZeneca has committed to use its Best Reasonable Efforts (as defined below) to build capacity to manufacture 300 million Doses of the Vaccine, at no profit and no loss to AstraZeneca,

Best Reasonable Efforts” means

(a) in the case of AstraZeneca, the activities and degree of effort that a company of similar size with a similarly-sized infrastructure and similar resources as AstraZeneca would undertake or use in the development and manufacture of a Vaccine at the relevant stage of development or commercialization having regard to the urgent need for a Vaccine to end a global pandemic which is resulting in serious public health issues, restrictions on personal freedoms and economic
impact, across the world but taking into account efficacy and safety; and

(b) in the case of the Commission and the Participating Member States, the activities and degree of effort that governments would undertake or use in supporting their contractor in the development of the Vaccine having regard to the urgent need for a Vaccine to end a global pandemic which is resulting in serious public health

Interesting.

@EasterIssland - I think all that para is doing is reserving AZ’s right to use manufacturing facilities outside the EU to meet its obligations.

I’m not sure what the EU feels forcing AZ to publish has achieved tbh.

I actually just feel very sad about the whole thing. The impact it will potentially have going forwards - turning this into such a public spat ( which has been a deliberate decision).

I’m not at all saying the U.K. would have necessarily acted differently but it is pretty disappointing behaviour from the EU in a pandemic.

@sashagabadon

Could it be a misunderstanding as to what best reasonable efforts actually means. Eu think it includes diverting doses from non EU factories and AZ mean within their own EU supply chain?

Nope! It is clearly defined in parts a and b! They will all do their damndest!

In this case the commissioning fell short, as evidnced by the fact that the UK and others got their orders confirmed more quickly AND didn't cavil when production stalled when trying to gear up to meet demand!

50EasterIssland

Yeah..but section 5.1 says within EU for initial doses and only 5.4 includes UK I 5.1 doesn't.

I'm not an expert on this but it reads as if AZ is right to me.

[quote littlestpogo]@EasterIssland - I think all that para is doing is reserving AZ’s right to use manufacturing facilities outside the EU to meet its obligations.

I’m not sure what the EU feels forcing AZ to publish has achieved tbh.

I actually just feel very sad about the whole thing. The impact it will potentially have going forwards - turning this into such a public spat ( which has been a deliberate decision).

I’m not at all saying the U.K. would have necessarily acted differently but it is pretty disappointing behaviour from the EU in a pandemic.[/quote]
The bit related to the uk is inside the EU factories and not the non-eu ones, isn't it?

I feel sad, I'm Spanish so all this is affecting my family at the end of the day as they're waiting for a vaccine. I hate politicians and their shows

Is anyone able to translate section 6.2 for me?

I’m not at all saying the U.K. would have necessarily acted differently but it is pretty disappointing behaviour from the EU in a pandemic. I think you could say that the UK did act differently. After all the parliamnetary toing and froing when supply was interrupted here, for both vaccines, there was no great fuss, that I am aware of. It was just explained to us in a briefing and we were reassured it would be here when it got here!

6.2? If supply goes Pete Tong we'll all play nice and work togther to find a solution! Competing orders will occur, we won't piss on your chips if you don't piss on ours!

Apparently the EU want all of that to read "In the event we cannot supply ANY VACCINE AT ALL!" - just listengin to radio news as I am typing!

Are all the dates redacted? Surely this is relevant if the commission are claiming breach of contract?

CuriousaboutSamphire

Thanks

I thought it was the costs that were redacted... head back...

So where next from here? Clearly AZ and EU at loggerheads over contract. Great that it’s public but the issue is still there. Von de leyen is saying the contract is clear so clearing expecting AZ to switch supply to EU? If they don’t, then what? Is court next?

I was skimming but looking for agreed delivery date and couldn't see it. I'll read it more slowly later, I could have missed it.

Presumably, the UK has a prior contract with AZ too. What are their commitments to us?

Yes that’s true @CuriousaboutSamphire - I was meaning more of the U.K. had found itself in a position to the EU ( whereas the U.K. didn’t quite as it had ordered doses earlier).

I’m not defending the EU at all - I’m genuinely horrified by its behaviour. Just don’t think it’s necessarily helpful the extent to which it has turned into EU bashing ( not saying you have or on this thread ).

But yes also I recall back in September there was stuff in the press about production issues with the AZ vaccines and how the U.K. would have a much lower amount by December than expected. Which it did!