Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

It's a bit unclear re novavax and whether the EU have an agreement.

The European commission confirmed exploratory talks in December, but its currently not listed as a vaccine they have agreement for.

ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_20_2467

According to The Spectator the EU contracts has a deadline of Q1. So they're causing this much aggro over a vaccine they haven't yet approved for a deadline that hasn't yet passed.

I'm only glad we're in lockdown, because I don't think I could stand the crowing from my Brexiteer Dad at being proved right in his worst proclamations about the EU.

No, I think it will just mean they use another vaccine for them and use the AZ for younger cohorts. Putting them in a weird position of having vaccines they won't use for a while whilst still shouting about not having them!

Basically, the EU is happy to waste money, time, and human lives on ensuring countries understand that to leave the EU is to suffer

Not a good look for the EU. This will have massive political repercussions down the line.

I think it’ll all calm down. Really if you look at the bigger picture I think Europe will be awash with vaccines come the summer.
We are actually very lucky to be in this situation arguing about doses of vaccines. I do think it is a lucky problem to have in a wired way. Quite a few vaccines have failed and they could all have done. We could be facing 2021 with no viable vaccines

@CuriousaboutSamphire

No, I think it will just mean they use another vaccine for them and use the AZ for younger cohorts. Putting them in a weird position of having vaccines they won't use for a while whilst still shouting about not having them!

Good point

EU are hopping mad because AZ informed them only days ago there would likely be a massive shortfall on contracted order. This has piled huge pressure on member states who have had to watch the slower, more cautious EU approach lead to a relatively poor vaccination roll out. They are gagging for more vaccines, yesterday preferably. Who can blame them? They are putting EU citizens first and playing hard ball.

Consider reversing the story: UK has British-made vaccines go to the EU with UK vaccinations down in the 1 - 2 %. What would Boris have done? Watch or act in the patriotic interest of UK citizens?

Who can blame them?

Yes I get that the EU are angry and frustrated. But to react like this - by petulantly demanding the UK supplies - the optics are shocking. It's so undignified.

@AllWashedOut but that anger should of been purely at Az some
Of comments mentioning uk were not called for .

@AllWashedOut also its not clear how many came here or not been published officially lots of newspaper reports saying this number and that, thats half the issue is the media with all sensational headlines , stirring everything up.

Consider reversing the story: UK has British-made vaccines go to the EU with UK vaccinations down in the 1 - 2 %. What would Boris have done? Watch or act in the patriotic interest of UK citizens?

I'd like to think he'd acknowledge that he made a mistake in being so cautious in signing contracts while other countries took a calculated risk which paid off. And that he'd also understand that those who took that risk take precedence over those who dawdled.

@IcedPurple that is precisely it. If you make a mistake OWN IT.

[quote PronounssheRa]It's a bit unclear re novavax and whether the EU have an agreement.

The European commission confirmed exploratory talks in December, but its currently not listed as a vaccine they have agreement for.

ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_20_2467[/quote]
It appears the EU haven't concluded the deal with

Novavax usa company which plans manufacture in UK and Europe.

Or valneva french firm who are manufacturing in Scotland and Sweden

m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/eu-seeks-more-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-eyes-deals-with-valneva-novavax/amp_articleshow/80218546.cms

The UK has places definite orders with both.
I believe UK took part in their trials
That them choosing to manufacture in uk boost uk economy.
We invested money in them before we knew they be a success.
However they won't be available late in year I guess quarter 3 or 4 so won't help EU right now who want immediate vaccines.

Given that no one in the Govt is willing to admit any mistakes in its handling of the covid crisis, i'm not sure such a benign response by Mr Johnson would be the case.

I think "sashagabadon" is spot on, what a position to be in, though i'm not sure it will blow over :(
i think the UK and EU will become rivals, this argument just adds to that belief.

I'm sure i wasn't the only one who worried we may never have a working vaccine, even less we'd have vaccinated millions less than a year after the first official UK CV death.

I hope we can all work together to ensure all vulnerable people can be vaccinated asap.

It did happen here with similar notice and explanation. We were told, on a podium talk, that such things happen in such a novel scenario and that the time would be spent gearing up.

We were reassured, not whipped into a frenzy!

Given that no one in the Govt is willing to admit any mistakes in its handling of the covid crisis, i'm not sure such a benign response by Mr Johnson would be the case.

Johnson said only the other day at the press conference that he took full responsibility for all the government’s actions in handling the Covid crisis. Perhaps you missed it?

@CuriousaboutSamphire

It did happen here with similar notice and explanation. We were told, on a podium talk, that such things happen in such a novel scenario and that the time would be spent gearing up.

We were reassured, not whipped into a frenzy!

Spot on!

We were told, on a podium talk, that such things happen in such a novel scenario and that the time would be spent gearing up

Agree. To be fair the govt was clear about delays and the supply chain being lumpy. There were sufficient warnings and management of the public’s expectations. Can the EU Commission say they have been as clear with their citizens?

The other point re EU delays in order that has been noted in a few pieces is the attitude towards liability. Think it’s a key point in the delays as EU wanted the pharmaceutical companies to take liability. In the end they have to agree separate agreements for each deal on liability.

I think it just shows there’s a real difference in approach between U.K. and EU. Were the EU clear that all these discussions were slowing things down? Did they not realise they were wasting precious time that could have been used to implement the supply chain issues that U.K. got a three month head start on. I have to wonder even if AZ could turn on more capacity for EU, are they ready to receive it?

Good overview here: www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/

I have to wonder even if AZ could turn on more capacity for EU, are they ready to receive it?

Az could not make capacity sufficient for EU demands on the UK orders alone because it wasnt set up for enough production to do that. It could not start on this until the EU got their act together. That gave the uk plants three months advance but they still fell behind schedule.

In AZs eyes you can see they felt that advance supplies and first orders for the eu were being served. Because that meant out of their EU capacity which the eu paid set up for.

There was always the expectation that the uk factories would serve the uk only at first and then the eu.

If the uk plants had kept to schedule, by the time the Eu was wanting supplies the uk factories possibly would have been much closer to being add to the eu deliveries.

But the whole thing has gone tits up.

Its undeniably an issue because the EU moved to slow. But AZ might yet get caught out on how theyve worded the contract.

fwiw I still think that, partly due to illicitly going outside the rules of the EU, Germany has got enough vaccine. They are desperate to turn the eyes of the other member states away from that. In any direction.

Really if you look at the bigger picture I think Europe will be awash with vaccines come the summer.

Summer is months away though and in the meantime, with no vaccine, economies will plummet further, thousands of lives will be lost. When it’s a matter of life and death, waiting until the summer just doesn’t cut it. Speed was always the name of the game on this one and the EU screwed up big time.

I should add that I feel extremely sorry for the citizens of the EU - their leaders have let them down big time on this.

The EU moved slowly. In part because they aren't 1 country deciding, they are 27. The UK blocked exports of covid medicines when it suited. Rivals play hard ball. It was better when we were on the same team.

Dongdingdong
Johnson said only the other day at the press conference that he took full responsibility for all the government’s actions in handling the Covid crisis. Perhaps you missed it? Aw, that is almost sweet. Except Boris didn't admit to any wrong doing only that he took full responsibility. He was in charge when we excelled in the vaccine race. Great, big tick. But what about death rates? Yup, him in charge. The care home stats, yup that too. Long may he regret the eat out to help out scheme and the 'world beating' T and T. I'm not holding my breath for a 'sorry I didn't deliver on those things' from Boris.

The EU moved slowly. In part because they aren't 1 country deciding, they are 27.

And that's precisely why, as has been shown several times, the EU is useless in a crisis.

Sasha one hopes that is the case, but how many lives lost in the meantime? As we know from the UK, each day counts further down the line?.. Also I've just read something confusing about an eu order of syringes that are too small or something to administer vaccines.