Friend saying she’s ignoring lock down from the end of the month.

[Covidcovid]

She’s always being very anti lockdown, citing mental health issues, etc and has just said from next week that’s it. She will do what she wants and take any fines.

I assume she just means visiting family because it’s not like she can go out for lunch or shopping. 🤷‍♀️

But I don’t understand her, she’s an intelligent person and an ex nurse. Her mum is currently very unwell in hospital with covid but she posted the other day that her mum has turned a corner and should hopefully be home soon. So surely she should see if it wasn’t for lockdown then there’s a risk people like her mum may not have got the treatment they needed because the hospitals would have likely being overwhelmed?

If it was me I’d be thankful there had been a lockdown because it wouldn’t have taken much more the way things were going for hospitals to not be able to,offer the current level of care......and in ICU even that isn’t optimal care with stretched ratios.

That’s a pretty big assumption to make. What do I do for a living? What are my personal/ domestic circumstances? How old am I? What is my ethnicity and social eco status?.., you don’t know!

I think a lot of us feel the same and I have been known to make declarations like this during low periods. It's the effect on my child that frustrates me more than anything, he's not even at risk from the virus and he's expected to be locked up indoors to benefit other people, people who flocked to restaurants and bars during eat out to help out and crammed into long queues for Primark before Christmas.

But then I catch a grip and just stay in. Not saying we do perfectly but you just have to do your best and take it one day at a time. The thought of passing Covid onto a family member is what scares me the most.

@GreenSlide

I think a lot of us feel the same and I have been known to make declarations like this during low periods. It's the effect on my child that frustrates me more than anything, he's not even at risk from the virus and he's expected to be locked up indoors to benefit other people, people who flocked to restaurants and bars during eat out to help out and crammed into long queues for Primark before Christmas.

But then I catch a grip and just stay in. Not saying we do perfectly but you just have to do your best and take it one day at a time. The thought of passing Covid onto a family member is what scares me the most.

Yes makes me furious our kids are locked up - just criminal

The real tragedy of this is that we didn’t need to have the highest death rate in the world. We didn’t need the long lockdown. We didn’t need to be dealing with a new mutation of the virus. All those people would have gone on to live out their natural lives whether it was for two years or thirty. We could have seen our loved ones, carried on with school, work and play. We wouldn’t have to put up with armchair (or is it toilet bowl) experts trotting out statistics and other evidence they don’t understand provided by Dr Google with dubiously funded right wing websites happy to feed their ignorance and need to feel in control. They could have gone back to just risking letting their children get maimed by measles. We wouldn’t have to watch all the people who don’t care about anyone else out partying and leaving our open spaces as a open sewer.

In countries across the world with different political systems and cultures they used well established methods of infection control to suppress the virus. 7 deaths in Taiwan, a country with 51m people, 7m (the population of Manchester ) densely packed into Teipei.
And their economy is booming. Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, South Korea, and yes even Japan. By setting up effective test trace and quarantine and closing their borders they have kept cases down, treated early and well those who did catch it, inconvenienced a relatively small number of people. Quarantine isn’t much fun but the people I know who have done it have no issues when they see how it is working.

It isn’t a trade off between lockdown and cases, deaths and mental health problems and economic damage. It was a trade off between a well organised public health response by a government that acted with probity and integrity and one that has repeatedly not acted when the scientists said they should, hived off test and trace to incompetent cronies and let the virus rampage and mutate (including now creating the conditions for further mutation with their vaccine strategy - let’s inject older people with less effective immune systems and then delay the second dose to give the virus a chance to become vaccine resistant against the advice of the majority of scientists and out of step with the rest of the world)

We had some of the best public health and science resources in the world, yet Vietnam managed to control the virus better with some of the worst.

Perfect summary @Emilyontmoor.

My worry is that now there’s such clear evidence that if you scare a population enough they will comply with any restrictions you care to impose on them. The capacity for abusing that power is huge, yet very few of us seem concerned about it.

@VinylDetective yes, I find it really weird how few people seem concerned with the total loss of fundamental freedoms and previously held beliefs about what is good and necessary in the world.

It’s pretty terrifying.

@WouldBeGood

I find it really weird how few people seem concerned with the total loss of fundamental freedoms

They 'lost fundamental freedoms' in Taipei, Taiwan, New Zealand, South Korea (countries which a PP is hailing as examples to follow)

No one seems to be 'terryfied' or kicking up a fuss there, do they?

'They 'lost fundamental freedoms' in Taipei, Taiwan, New Zealand, South Korea (countries which a PP is hailing as examples to follow) No one seems to be 'terryfied' or kicking up a fuss there, do they?'

Exactly!

It is sooo ironic. Some mumsnetters can't tolerate the most lenient of uk restrictions yet wang on about how great Japan and Taiwan have done - with their very strict restrictions and quarantines.

Guess what, the stricter countries with their lock you in a hotel room for quarantine rules and compliant nation have had better control!

I’ve never mentioned any other country. Locking people in hotel rooms is a million miles from compliance, it’s enforcement.

Lol at compliance as if it's a choice where the other option is being manhandled and locked up.

truly That is the irony, the “libertarians” point their finger at Taiwan and say look their liberty is being curtailed, we are not like that we demand our Liberty. Well from my point of view it would be a fine thing if I had not had the liberty to

*be one of the 1.5m Londoners who was left to catch Covid in March (17%of the 9m Londoners had antibodies in June) , though thankfully not the 1% to have died of it.

*have the worry when my parents caught it badly in March (“it can’t be it there are only 4 cases in the county”). In their village more people died in March than have since in wards in the centre of the city nearby that has been locked down ever since.

*locked down for three prolonged periods because entirely predictably the infection is rife and has now mutated with no working test trace and isolate to control it

*be worried about all the friends and family going down with it now

*to not be able to see my parents except for once in the summer knowing my Dad is getting more and more frail and forgetful. Not to have him only able to phone clearly missing us like crazy.

My liberty from all that would have been a fine thing. My liberty not to wear a mask and get on with my life whilst the government tosses wads of cash to incompetent cronies instead of suppressing the virus, and whilst millions in the UK alone have been infected and fast approaching 100000 have died unnecessarily. That liberty I can do without.

My friends and family in Hong Kong, Australia and New Zealand are not bemoaning their loss of liberty, they are taking boats to island restaurants and meeting friends like a normal Sunday. When they have had to lockdown or quarantine they don’t moan because they know their government will get on top of it (even incompetent Carrie Lam who thankfully has a competent public health set up) and it is never long before they are safe again to go about their daily lives.

@Emilyontmoor, that’s not the point I was making and I don’t disagree with you.

I thought I’d made it quite succinctly but I’ll try again. I find it troubling that this government has so comprehensively terrified some people into compliance without question. This thread is proof that it’s also very successfully set one half of the population against the other (as if bloody Brexit hadn’t done enough of that).

If it can do it once, what is there to stop it doing it again with far less justification? Liberty is too precious to be tossed away without question.

This thread is proof that it’s also very successfully set one half of the population against the other (as if bloody Brexit hadn’t done enough of that).

That's ridiculous. People are different with different priorities. Mumsnet is like a bag of ferrets on a good day. Of course there will be polarised opinions on such an emotive and complex issue. You can't blame the government for arguments on MN over closing schools. It would have been a miracle if everyone agreed.

I also don't think you're accurate to imply those with different views are proportioned 50/50. I think those against lockdown at the moment are very much in the minority but say it on anonymous forums. Those in favour are mostly getting on with things.

You can't blame the government for arguments on MN over closing schools

I didn’t. There’s a big wide world outside MN. Where some people are never stepping outside their houses and others are completely ignoring all guidance. I have friends at every both extremes and each are bitterly criticising the other.

I didn’t say it was 50/50 either. Can you please stop putting words in my mouth? And yes, technically half is 50%, I used it colloquially.

Well, don't use what's happening on MN as evidence of that, then!

And don't use statistics 'colloquially'!! What rot.

I didn’t use statistics. Never heard anyone say “Half the time” or “Halfway there”? You’re just desperate for an argument, aren’t you?

Japan's hospitals are in danger of becoming overwhelmed
Remember how everyone said that the reason they'd not been hit as badly was due to their unselfish cultural norm of wearing masks?

Remember how Germany's track and trace program was praised to the hilt , and their success was credited to it?
Look at them now! They've gone into a 'mega lockdown' and are building camps for enforced isolation of those 'selfish' flouters!
Absolutely nothing about that is a bad idea, huh!?
Germany have at least realised that cloth masks are fucking useless, and so have banned them.
But, they're simply insisting on N95s and FFFPs masks instead!
Again, a plan with zero conceivable drawbacks !

If the masks aren't working, but it's immoral to not wear masks... the only possible answer is to - MASK HARDER YOU SELFISH ARSEHOLES!!

Oh look - New Zealand's quarantine procedure has failed yet again. Every three months or so that this happens, is it? And that's with only allowing returning Kiwis home.
But, never mind that it's obviously not a sustainable long term strategy. Ardern sure has her morals in the right place, and that's all that matters, right!?

Look at what The Japansese PM's advisors have told him.
'... advisers have warned the measures, which include asking bars and restaurants to close early and people to avoid non-essential outings, are unlikely to have much effect.'

Johan Giesecke, one of the architects of the Swedish response, said that the results will eventually be similar for all countries.

Lots of people knew this.
But, we have politicians governed by popular opinion, and 67 million Stacy-from-HRs screeched that to not try was immoral and heartless and wrong and cruel so something MUST be done, even if The Thing That Must Be Done was a billion times crueller, and could never possibly work!

Lockdown made sense to Stacy from HR. Stacy from HR did not really consider the multiple catastrophic harms from the response, because it is not in Stacy from HR's nature to do so. She was scared about the virus, and naive to the negatives.

Stacy still just sees things in terms of emotion and morals. She cares about her Dad not dying so that makes her A Good Person. Lockdowns make sense to her so that makes pursuing them in the idea of saving Dad A Very Good Idea.
Anyone not thinking the same is therefore SELFISH.

Stacy, and the politicians who caved to her, has quite possibly brought about the destruction of our society.

@Paapa fucking awesome post

@Paapa

Japan's hospitals are in danger of becoming overwhelmed Remember how everyone said that the reason they'd not been hit as badly was due to their unselfish cultural norm of wearing masks?

Remember how Germany's track and trace program was praised to the hilt , and their success was credited to it?
Look at them now! They've gone into a 'mega lockdown' and are building camps for enforced isolation of those 'selfish' flouters!
Absolutely nothing about that is a bad idea, huh!?
Germany have at least realised that cloth masks are fucking useless, and so have banned them.
But, they're simply insisting on N95s and FFFPs masks instead!
Again, a plan with zero conceivable drawbacks !

If the masks aren't working, but it's immoral to not wear masks... the only possible answer is to - MASK HARDER YOU SELFISH ARSEHOLES!!

Oh look - New Zealand's quarantine procedure has failed yet again. Every three months or so that this happens, is it? And that's with only allowing returning Kiwis home.
But, never mind that it's obviously not a sustainable long term strategy. Ardern sure has her morals in the right place, and that's all that matters, right!?

Look at what The Japansese PM's advisors have told him.
'... advisers have warned the measures, which include asking bars and restaurants to close early and people to avoid non-essential outings, are unlikely to have much effect.'

Johan Giesecke, one of the architects of the Swedish response, said that the results will eventually be similar for all countries.

Lots of people knew this.
But, we have politicians governed by popular opinion, and 67 million Stacy-from-HRs screeched that to not try was immoral and heartless and wrong and cruel so something MUST be done, even if The Thing That Must Be Done was a billion times crueller, and could never possibly work!

Lockdown made sense to Stacy from HR. Stacy from HR did not really consider the multiple catastrophic harms from the response, because it is not in Stacy from HR's nature to do so. She was scared about the virus, and naive to the negatives.

Stacy still just sees things in terms of emotion and morals. She cares about her Dad not dying so that makes her A Good Person. Lockdowns make sense to her so that makes pursuing them in the idea of saving Dad A Very Good Idea.
Anyone not thinking the same is therefore SELFISH.

Stacy, and the politicians who caved to her, has quite possibly brought about the destruction of our society.

I’m don’t think so re Stacy

More likely we’ve been at receiving end of campaign to gel we need to be ‘safe’

To think we..

Gaun yersel @Paapa

@Paapa you should go for a walk. Clear your head. Gently suggest you take some time out from forums like here, honestly it will help your wellbeing immensely. 2021 is going to be hard for everyone.