Friend saying she’s ignoring lock down from the end of the month.

[Covidcovid]

She’s always being very anti lockdown, citing mental health issues, etc and has just said from next week that’s it. She will do what she wants and take any fines.

I assume she just means visiting family because it’s not like she can go out for lunch or shopping. 🤷‍♀️

But I don’t understand her, she’s an intelligent person and an ex nurse. Her mum is currently very unwell in hospital with covid but she posted the other day that her mum has turned a corner and should hopefully be home soon. So surely she should see if it wasn’t for lockdown then there’s a risk people like her mum may not have got the treatment they needed because the hospitals would have likely being overwhelmed?

If it was me I’d be thankful there had been a lockdown because it wouldn’t have taken much more the way things were going for hospitals to not be able to,offer the current level of care......and in ICU even that isn’t optimal care with stretched ratios.

I concur there really is a mental health epidemic in this country, you only need to read this thread to say how over invested some of you are in lockdown mania

tinselearedcow
Again, where is the basis for your assertion that on average most who have died from covid would have "died anyway in 2020 or 2021"? Show me your evidence.

OK. If the short version didn't do it for you.....

The average length of stay in a care home is 26 months (just over 2 years )
In England in 2020, 20 042 covid deaths came from care homes .
That’s out of 50 248 total covid deaths in England (give or take a bit for slight variations in count dates).
So, 40% of people who died were statistically expected to die within the next 2 years or very shortly after.
‘That’s not ‘most’!’ I hear you cry. And you’d be right. But, it’s a very significant proportion, and that’s only one metric.
Next we have diabetes. Type 2 diabetics have a life expectancy 10 years lower than average. Type 1, 20 years lower than average. We’ll have to average that to 15 years, since the covid figures don’t distinguish by type. So, diabetics have a life expectancy of 64.4 for men, and 68.1 for women. 66.25 average for both.
26% of the total covid deaths 2020 were diabetic. Ideally, the stats would show the number of deaths of diabetics sorted into age groups, which would make it easier to tell how many were statistically likely to die within the next two years without covid. Sadly, they don’t (not ones I can find, anyway).
But we can get an understanding. Since we’ve got the care home stats accounted for already, and we don’t want to double count diabetics in care comes, we need to use reduce the total number of covid diabetic deaths by the number of diabetics NOT in care homes, which is 3 out of 4.
There were 12831 diabetics who died of covid in England in 2020. ¾ of that is 9623 That’s 19% of the total covid deaths. Now, if the average age of death from covid is 82.4, but 19% of the people who died had a life expectancy of 66.25, it’s starting to look like covid doesn’t actually take that many years from diabetics, on average, does it?
There have also been studies done which show that older age and frailty are key factors for covid deaths.
Most people it’s taking are very old and very ill already. They didn’t have long left. And whilst this is sad for them and their families, it’s good news for the rest of us. Why people seem to want to cling to the idea that it’s cutting lots of people down in their prime, I just don’t understand.

[quote SnoozyLou]**@VinylDetective* @lockdownshmockdown*

I'm sorry you both lack basic comprehension skills. My original post was clear enough for most people, I would have thought, but then there are the deliberately fucking dense.[/quote]
Clearly it wasn’t. It didn’t mention tax or insurance. You implied it was confiscated for noncompliance with covid rules, hoping nobody would take issue with it.

@TastyTicklemore

This place has turned so nasty.

Yes! It has always had a toxic edge but it is now fully immersed in poison

Our local police are scanning number plates and going after people from outside the area. Woe betide anyone with a defective car or no tax/insurance. A family of 4 had their car seized the other day and had to make their own way home 150 miles away.

If this happened, it’s because their car wasn’t taxed. The police have machines that automatically check number plates. They were not stopped because they were xxxx miles away from home.

More scaremongering bs.

Police scan plates all the time anyway.

@shindiggery

Pappa

You are really contradicting yourself there.

The points you're trying to make are also rather revolting, as is the flippant tone in light of the content. You're making it very clear these people's years of life are nothing to you. That's not ok. There is every possibility the next year of life meant and means as much to an elderly person as it does to you. Every possibility.

The points you're trying to make are also rather revolting

You mean you don't like the facts?

You're making it very clear these people's years of life are nothing to you. That's not ok.

You're inferring an awful lot, there. Besides, how I feel about anything makes very little difference to the facts. Very old, very ill people will die, whether you care about them or not.

Your post just further proves how much of all of this is a moral panic, alongside a health crisis.
It's effective, evidence based measures that we need in these situations, not a moral panic.

**How much of your disposable income do you send to the fight against malaria in Africa? If you've bought wine or crisps in the last fortnight you're SELFISH - that money could have saved someone's life.

Do you still have both kidneys? SELFISH**

Brilliant post!!!!

@Paapa

@Paapa

tinselearedcow Again, where is the basis for your assertion that on average most who have died from covid would have "died anyway in 2020 or 2021"? Show me your evidence.

OK. If the short version didn't do it for you.....

The average length of stay in a care home is 26 months (just over 2 years )
In England in 2020, 20 042 covid deaths came from care homes .
That’s out of 50 248 total covid deaths in England (give or take a bit for slight variations in count dates).
So, 40% of people who died were statistically expected to die within the next 2 years or very shortly after.
‘That’s not ‘most’!’ I hear you cry. And you’d be right. But, it’s a very significant proportion, and that’s only one metric.
Next we have diabetes. Type 2 diabetics have a life expectancy 10 years lower than average. Type 1, 20 years lower than average. We’ll have to average that to 15 years, since the covid figures don’t distinguish by type. So, diabetics have a life expectancy of 64.4 for men, and 68.1 for women. 66.25 average for both.
26% of the total covid deaths 2020 were diabetic. Ideally, the stats would show the number of deaths of diabetics sorted into age groups, which would make it easier to tell how many were statistically likely to die within the next two years without covid. Sadly, they don’t (not ones I can find, anyway).
But we can get an understanding. Since we’ve got the care home stats accounted for already, and we don’t want to double count diabetics in care comes, we need to use reduce the total number of covid diabetic deaths by the number of diabetics NOT in care homes, which is 3 out of 4.
There were 12831 diabetics who died of covid in England in 2020. ¾ of that is 9623 That’s 19% of the total covid deaths. Now, if the average age of death from covid is 82.4, but 19% of the people who died had a life expectancy of 66.25, it’s starting to look like covid doesn’t actually take that many years from diabetics, on average, does it?
There have also been studies done which show that older age and frailty are key factors for covid deaths.
Most people it’s taking are very old and very ill already. They didn’t have long left. And whilst this is sad for them and their families, it’s good news for the rest of us. Why people seem to want to cling to the idea that it’s cutting lots of people down in their prime, I just don’t understand.

I didn’t know that the age expectancy for diabetics. Surprised by that

Although how does excess deaths fit with the average age expectancy?

Is it 80k excess?

didn’t know that the age expectancy for diabetics. Surprised by that

Actually I wasn't very accurate on that. It actually says 'up to ten years', not ten years on average. Was cooking the tea whilst trying to do it all - that's my excuse...

www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-life-expectancy.html

Although how does excess deaths fit with the average age expectancy? I've no idea. I did read somewhere once that coronavirus coming to the country has shortened all of our lives by an average of 2 weeks.

I imagine the average age expectancy for diabetics is brought down by the fact that some are more likely to die early than those without, my cousin died with type 1 at age 34.

@TastyTicklemore

I celebrate every single person tonight gritting their teeth and trying to cope with another day. Bless you and thank you.

Absolutely - and you are doing more good by taking this approach than anyone screaming vitriol into the wind....

This

A thousand times this.

Some people just don't care about pulling together for their country, their local area, their family, or really, anyone else at all, do they?

They wanna do what they wanna do, and stuff what's best for Britain.

It's been astonishing to me how little backbone some people have. ^
^
I know we can't all have the same amount of strength and resilience, but I honestly didn't realise so many people were so weak.

I’m surprised people don’t have the backbone and resilience to get on with things and stop hiding away.

pappa

No, not moral panic. Your tone is distasteful - I'm not sure why you would assume someone is panicking on the back of this. As many others have pointed out, your facts are largely made up or distorted, apparently for the purposes of making the case that some Covid deaths are less significant than others. You've attempted to bamboozle and gaslight to the point that I suspect you are Nigel Farage enjoying a night out on mumsnet.

Others may have time to engage but I think you're a lost cause and I have better things to do. It disappoints me that you exist.

We have no hope of getting past this is everyone just sets their own date for the end of lockdown. So many people think they are too special to follow the rules. And more people are dying now than last year. But fuck it they are old and diabetic and would have died anyway soon so fuck them and LET ME HUG MY MUUUUUUM!!!

On average covid takes 13 years off your life.

Obviously for the very old it may be only a year or two,

But for others such as my friend who died last year at 42 it's decades.

wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75?fbclid=IwAR0Dz-7-sNsKWx0sxaur8JeEWWo3EK1NJjJbDZ4ysHEGNUOwENXlbTrBwoo

My dad's in his 70s but I expect him to live to a similar age to his dad. (96) Not die at 74 in 2021.

If your dad dies of covid this year how many years of life will he have lost?

For my dad it would be 22 years as far as I'm concerned.

@WouldBeGood

I’m surprised people don’t have the backbone and resilience to get on with things and stop hiding away.

No one's hiding. They're protecting.

Some people care that 100,000 British people are dead unnecessarily and don't want it to be any more.

And for most of us this is the only thing we can do.

So we do it.

@shindiggery

pappa

No, not moral panic. Your tone is distasteful - I'm not sure why you would assume someone is panicking on the back of this. As many others have pointed out, your facts are largely made up or distorted, apparently for the purposes of making the case that some Covid deaths are less significant than others. You've attempted to bamboozle and gaslight to the point that I suspect you are Nigel Farage enjoying a night out on mumsnet.

Others may have time to engage but I think you're a lost cause and I have better things to do. It disappoints me that you exist.

No, not moral panic. Your tone is distasteful - I'm not sure why you would assume someone is panicking on the back of this

You're literally denying it's about morals and then judging my morals within the same sentence.

As many others have pointed out, your facts are largely made up or distorted
Which ones?

apparently for the purposes of making the case that some Covid deaths are less significant than others.
Another moral judgement.

you've attempted to bamboozle and gaslight
Give me examples of where I've done this.

It disappoints me that you exist.
Moral judement.

TBH I would have thought the same but 2 people I know died this week with covid and it has made me so much more aware of the dangers

@PrincessNutNuts

On average covid takes 13 years off your life.

Obviously for the very old it may be only a year or two,

But for others such as my friend who died last year at 42 it's decades.

wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75?fbclid=IwAR0Dz-7-sNsKWx0sxaur8JeEWWo3EK1NJjJbDZ4ysHEGNUOwENXlbTrBwoo

My dad's in his 70s but I expect him to live to a similar age to his dad. (96) Not die at 74 in 2021.

If your dad dies of covid this year how many years of life will he have lost?

For my dad it would be 22 years as far as I'm concerned.

This study was submitted on the 23rd April 2020(which obviously means that they were working on it before then) - only China had much data by that point and they weren't exactly being honest.

It was also rejected by two out of three of the people who peer reviewed it (pretty important....), and has been further criticised in the comments.

I’m surprised people don’t have the backbone and resilience to get on with things and stop hiding away

I have been shielding since March alongside my husband who is CEV. We also care for our disabled adult son and teenager foster children. We are able to work from home and obviously home school and have not been able to access any of the usual support systems during this time. It has taken so much backbone and resilience to get through the last ten months and I miss my other children and grandson desperately. The thought that others are judging us for "not getting on with things" and we are "hiding away" has hurt me enormously. I have done what I have done to give my husband the best possible chance of staying alive, and to stay alive myself so I can continue to care for the others. I truly did not realise others think of us as such cowards. WOW.

@acrossthebrooklynbridge I definitely don't think anything you have described as cowardly. I hope you recieve a vaccination letter soon.

I'm shocked and saddened by a lot of the posts on this thread that basic humanity has fallen by the wayside.

It's frankly saddening and depressing to read that others think premature death in high numbers is acceptable because they wish to carry on with their normal lives. It's also no longer "just old people or sick people" who are dying. This horrible virus is like playing Russian roulette nobody knows how it will effect them.
Some campassion goes a long way. Yes there is a balance between illness and economics but not at this stage where its still rampaging through.

Not RTFT.
Although I don't agree with "ignoring lockdown" and I definitely haven't been doing - I've been sticking to the rules since the beginning)
I can see why people get to this point.
I mean, it's all just so here and there.
We can see MIL, as she's in a bubble with us and she can come into the house, we can go over there, sit in too, all normal. Kids get to see Grandma.
But we can't see my Mum who usually comes over weekly as she lives with my Dad?
You can see one Grandma/Mum but not the other.
I want to see my Mum and Dad, and I'm a positive person but the fact that MIL is able to come in and mine isn't is a bit
Don't get me wrong, don't begrudge her being here, support bubble and all that, it's needed, but I can see why people are starting to think "meh" when they've got no end in sight.