MIL is an antivaxxer.. and I'm not!

[mummyoftwotinkers]

Help please! My MIL is a fierce antivaxxer and always has been (she's 63 and fit and well). I am 100% pro vaccinations being medically trained and having several friends and family members currently on the front line, exhausted, terrified and stressed about what each day will bring.

She's saying she won't have the covid vaccine because it's 'not safe', 'not tested enough' 'contains metals that are toxic to us' and 'we don't know the side effects yet so she wants to let others try it and get those side effects first before making her decision'.

I am struggling with her selfishness about the whole situation, partly because I don't want her to catch it and give it to us (when restrictions lift- we're not seeing her at the mo), partly because I don't want my kids to give it to her (they go to nursery) and mostly because I cannot comprehend how someone cannot care about our poor healthcare workers having to treat people like this who may end up in hospital just because they 'didn't believe' in the vaccine. That, alongside the people who are ill with other conditions who wont necessarily get a hospital bed because she or other antivaxxers are filling the wards.

What do I do?! She's not eligible for the vaccine yet so I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt to change her mind, but I'm pretty sure that won't happen (my husband only found out he hasn't had the MMR jab when he was at uni and there was a mumps outbreak).

I feel like if she doesn't have the vaccine then I should continue to keep the kids at a distance from her, which I know she will take as me 'punishing her' for her choices (and maybe I am 🤷🏻‍♀️)

I don't want to fall out with her about this but I think this is going to drive a massive wedge in between us, and when our well-being (not just our belief) is on the line, I don't see why I should compromise?

Am I being unreasonable?!

The moderna vaccine does not contain any preservative however the following is supposed to be told to all recipients of the vaccine. If people choose not to then no one should be judging them.

INFORMATION TO PROVIDE TO VACCINE RECIPIENTS/CAREGIVERS
As the vaccination provider, you must communicate to the recipient or their caregiver,
information consistent with the “Fact Sheet for Recipients and Caregivers” (and provide a copy
or direct the individual to the website www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua to obtain the
Fact Sheet) prior to the individual receiving the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine, including:
• FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine, which is not
an FDA-approved vaccine.
• The recipient or their caregiver has the option to accept or refuse the Moderna COVID-19
Vaccine.
• The significant known and potential risks and benefits of the Moderna COVID-19
Vaccine, and the extent to which such risks and benefits are unknown.
• Information about available alternative vaccines and the risks and benefits of those
alternatives

@mummyoftwotinkers Really feel for your situation. My family is going through a similar ordeal although fast forward 8 months when Delta is now dominant strain... My own mother, 61 is conspiracy theorist extraordinaire including a resolute defiance of any vaccination. I have three daughters, all in different childcare settings and on my side she is my only living blood relative. I respect some of her opinions but in this instance of her willingness to put her life into the hands of Delta makes me feel that she is only thinking about herself and not her grandchildrens' feelings. She wants to pretend as if there is no outcome as a result of this choice. Yet every time I go to bed I play through all possible outcomes that are not pleasant and the narratives and motions I will have to move through with my young girls and their feelings about having no other family members on my maternal side should the worst happen. I am preoccupied almost 0% about the prospect of her giving Covid to us, and 100% with the possibility that we will (literally) be the death of her; as her daughter I wish no part to play in it yet can't bear the time that she has left being separated from her grandchildren. I feel stuck in a nightmare. Can you spare any further wisdom you received in the last few months with how you dealt with this situation? Appreciate any help! Thank you

It’s completely and utterly up to your mother in law what she does. I don’t agree with her but her body, her decision. Personally, I’d put it to the back of my mind and avoid the subject.

MrsKirkers it's totally her choice. You say she's only thinking about her self, but she could say the same about you? I'm not being horrible there, it's just that you can't expect her to do something she doesn't want to.

Hang on, your saying that your nursery school kids wouid feel bad passing it on when they are older? Silly think to say. How would anyone know where it was caught from?

What makes you think she will Die if she gets it anyway?

My mother is mid 70's and had a cold for a few days. Do not assume she will get covid and die.

But back to your point - you are being unreasonable and unfair to stop her / limit her seeing her grandkids.

Her body. Her choice. People shouldn't be so judgmental.

Zombie thread

@DismantledKing

Zombie thread

For a reason though. A poster is asking @mummyoftwotinkers the OP how things have turned out, now they are some months after the initial situation?

For a reason though. A poster is asking @mummyoftwotinkers the OP how things have turned out, now they are some months after the initial situation?

All that will happen is people continuing to give advice to the OP, long after the situation has passed.
That’s what always happens. I sincerely doubt that the OP will be back.

@DismantledKing

For a reason though. A poster is asking @mummyoftwotinkers the OP how things have turned out, now they are some months after the initial situation?

All that will happen is people continuing to give advice to the OP, long after the situation has passed.
That’s what always happens. I sincerely doubt that the OP will be back.

I expect the world will continue to turn either way.

just had to google 'zombie thread' - shockingly this is my first post on Mumsnet (though avide reader for years). But yes, I was genuinely intrigued as to how people have moved through this situation now that Delta is on the scene. What makes me think it will kill her? I guess that is a fear-based worry as she is the only blood relative I have so perhaps I am enlarging the probability but perhaps my mind is trying to plan for the worst. Who knows.

I see that. And for everyone that has shared that same view it has really helped to re-balance my thoughts. I just really don't want to lose her. Our nurseries have been closed 3 times in one month so I know Covid is on our periphery.

Entirely her choice. As is to have the vaccine is yours.

@Superfoodie123

If you believe the vaccine will keep you safe surely she won't be endangering you?

Lol we’re really playing anti-vaxxer bingo here aren’t we? Hahahaha.

[quote MrsKirkers]@mummyoftwotinkers Really feel for your situation. My family is going through a similar ordeal although fast forward 8 months when Delta is now dominant strain... My own mother, 61 is conspiracy theorist extraordinaire including a resolute defiance of any vaccination. I have three daughters, all in different childcare settings and on my side she is my only living blood relative. I respect some of her opinions but in this instance of her willingness to put her life into the hands of Delta makes me feel that she is only thinking about herself and not her grandchildrens' feelings. She wants to pretend as if there is no outcome as a result of this choice. Yet every time I go to bed I play through all possible outcomes that are not pleasant and the narratives and motions I will have to move through with my young girls and their feelings about having no other family members on my maternal side should the worst happen. I am preoccupied almost 0% about the prospect of her giving Covid to us, and 100% with the possibility that we will (literally) be the death of her; as her daughter I wish no part to play in it yet can't bear the time that she has left being separated from her grandchildren. I feel stuck in a nightmare. Can you spare any further wisdom you received in the last few months with how you dealt with this situation? Appreciate any help! Thank you[/quote]
Hey @MrsKirkers
I would love to tell you that all has worked out brilliantly, but truthfully many many arguments have been had (not just between the two of us I hasten to add, my husband and his siblings are also involved). She's still not jabbed. She's insisting that alternative therapies (that are not licensed in the UK) will help her should she get covid (although apart from trying and failing to buy the drugs online with no prescription, she has no answer as to how she'll get hold off said drug).
I've given up trying to educate her that Dr Google/YouTube is unreliable and not 'evidence'. She's accepting that she may catch covid. I've accepted that her antivax views will most likely result in her catching it (it's only a matter of time), and I just hope for everyone's sake she doesn't have a bad time of it.
Her best friend (and the friend's two college-attending teenage children) are also un-vaxxed, leaving her in an even more exposed position.
I know that people have had side effects from the vaccine, but I personally know many many more people who are suffering from long covid, it's a risk vs benefit conundrum. To me it's a no brainer. To her it's not that simple. I've accepted it's her choice, and hopefully she will be ok when the virus eventually finds its way to her.
We had a family gathering the other day. Everyone (all double jabbed long ago) was hugging on arrival and happy to finally be able to do so after a long year and a half. She was busy elbow bumping everyone and keeping her distance. For someone who was so sad that she was missing out on human contact during the lockdowns I find it bizarre. Whatever. It's her choice. I've made my peace with it.
Sorry I can't be of more help!

@DismantledKing

For a reason though. A poster is asking @mummyoftwotinkers the OP how things have turned out, now they are some months after the initial situation?

All that will happen is people continuing to give advice to the OP, long after the situation has passed.
That’s what always happens. I sincerely doubt that the OP will be back.

I'm back

@Remmy123

Hang on, your saying that your nursery school kids wouid feel bad passing it on when they are older? Silly think to say. How would anyone know where it was caught from?

What makes you think she will Die if she gets it anyway?

My mother is mid 70's and had a cold for a few days. Do not assume she will get covid and die.

But back to your point - you are being unreasonable and unfair to stop her / limit her seeing her grandkids.

Her body. Her choice. People shouldn't be so judgmental.

Do you not know anyone who's had covid? I do, lots, and they all have an explanation of where/who they might have caught it from. Sure they don't know for sure, but given that my MIL has a limited social circle, it would be pretty easy to pin down where she'd contracted it, especially if it then became apparent that there was a recent outbreak at nursery and if my kids subsequently tested positive.

Lol we’re really playing anti-vaxxer bingo here aren’t we? Hahahaha.

Misstrip82 what on earth are you talking about?

Your mum needs to do what is right for her. You can't decide what the risks are for her.

@Peteycat

Your mum needs to do what is right for her. You can't decide what the risks are for her.

But you can worry for her and for people around her, including your family? It’s science, but not rocket science 🤷‍♀️

I’m sorry you’re still in a difficult / worrying situation @mummyoftwotinkers but thanks for updating the thread

Thank you so much @mummyoftwotinkers for coming back onto this thread. Those drugs you mention I've heard about through my mum as they are her line of defence when I ask her what is her plan for when she gets Covid. Not that she'll know because she refuses to be tested, too.

I'm trying to spend my energy shifting myself into accepting her choice so I naturally try to play out the practicalities of her choice; she is insisting she wants one day with the grandkids - I do not feel that is appropriate given the 3 childcare settings and 'winter coming'. She wants to come round for Sunday lunch every week (she is alone), but again - with the transmission of Delta and our kids as carriers I can't make sense of that. As she refuses to be tested 'because she has a sensitive nose (?!)' , will every sniffle and cough she gets lead my husband and I to worry about what she has and how it's going to pan out? She believes in Covid but won't wear a mask. She says her biggest fear is dying. She preaches to me that in fact it's me and my husband will die 'imminently' as we are both double jabbed and 'how dare we'.

The one thing I struggle with is the kids - there are 3 under 6 and the two elder ones adore her. I know this is a circular argument and there is actually nothing I can do; I would rather they each have the joy in their lives through their roles as Nana/grandchildren as the lasting legacy, whatever happens.

Underneath all her 'borrowed' sound bytes (gathered from hate sites like [edited by MNHQ], is a real lack of any coherent answer as to why she is happy to take such risks with her life (again, freedom of choice - fine but if she believes in Covid why not wear a mask when in the supermarket?!) She will plan to take untrialled, unavailable drugs to treat covid should she get it, but won't take a trialled and safe (based on risk vs. reward stats) vaccine. Nothing is actually consistent with what she says she believes and for that I feel sad that her family so little that she won't do more proper 'research' and gather proper 'evidence'.

I found this thread because I searched for someone going through the same experience; it's quite a niche one. I do understand it's her choice and just accept it - but you truly put yourself in the shoes the practicalities of that are rather quite sad.

@FelicityWhiskers But it’s not just about themselves, is it? People who don’t have the vaccine are biohazards. There have been many cases where these biohazards catch the virus and pass it onto other people and those people have died.

She has a choice not to have the vaccine, you also have a choice not to see her.

I don't think I could go round to my MIL if she was an anti-vaxxer (she's not!), I wouldn't be able to hold my tongue whilst she was spewing that kind of nonsense. Wouldn't be worth it, my blood pressure is borderline high as it is!

FelicityWhiskers But it’s not just about themselves, is it? People who don’t have the vaccine are biohazards. There have been many cases where these biohazards catch the virus and pass it onto other people and those people have died.

How dare you. How dare you call unvaccinated people such a horrible thing. You should be ashamed of yourself you horrible person. Are you a scientist? I'd bet not judging by your judgemental tone. It's a choice, and nobody will be forced. There are very good reasons why people don't want them. What if it's medical, you going to call them biohazards then?

Sugarhouse 1 that was to you.