Where's my thread gone?

[CovidJabToday]

I posted last night about how the vaccine centre I went to yesterday was not well ventilated, tea and coffee given in the waiting area after etc... Sharing of pens.

The thread was going ok, no rudeness or arguments on the thread, just people giving sensible comment. Some with similar experiences, some with better experiences.

Then this morning a thread pops up about 'beware the anti vaxers', dissing my thread and calling it fake.

Now my thread has gone???

Why are we only allowed to give one side of the story on Mumsnet? This is shocking. My post wasnt offensive or anything. All true. How are posters meant tom prove they r genuine?

Sandwiches and biscuits are OK if they are served in unopened packages. Tea is made with boiling water and presumably the cups are disposable.

I think the issue is it encourages people to remove their masks?

[quote trulydelicious]@Robbybobtail

It seems anyone who voices any concerns at all with the vaccine or the administering of it is just wiped off

I agree with your post. And it's not just vaccines, it's in relation to all kinds of topics. Anything that deviates from the 'accepted rethoric' is censored or 'cancelled' (and I'm thinking of most SM here, not MN specifically)

Thankfully, ideas can't be killed. The (large number of) people who have alternative views will just move to different platforms to hold informative discussions rather than remaining in echo-chambers full of intolerant fanatics[/quote]
Thing is, 'ideas' need evidence to back them up, otherwise they are just made up. This is where it can go very wrong because what a person accepts as good evidence is very variable. Also, these other discussion forums, are they not just echo chambers too?

And 'alternative views' are all too often of the tin-foil hat variety! As @GwendolineMarysLaces points out - facts are important, ideas/views/alternative perspectives can be dangerous.

Did people actually read the thread.

If it was just saying 'why the hell are they serving tea and biscuits. That can't be safe'. Then that would have been ok.

However it was a drip feed into how dangerous vaccination centres are. The stupid photos and the comments were ridiculous. The uses name a clue to their user history!

If posters are genuinely worried. Complain to your NHS trust and whoever is running the centre. Please do because that is helpful.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

Did people actually read the thread.

If it was just saying 'why the hell are they serving tea and biscuits. That can't be safe'. Then that would have been ok.

However it was a drip feed into how dangerous vaccination centres are. The stupid photos and the comments were ridiculous. The uses name a clue to their user history!

If posters are genuinely worried. Complain to your NHS trust and whoever is running the centre. Please do because that is helpful.

... followed by another dripfeed about how ill he/she has been since.

Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum - why are you so against the thread? It was a perfectly appropriate discussion about vaccine centres and what could be improved about them to make them safer. I didn't post any photos, but the 2 or 3 photos others put on there didn't seem that inflammatory.

There was no drip feeding. I spelled out my experience clearly in the first post. I was concerned that there was minimal.social distancing in the unventilated waiting room, too many people.in the vaccine room, and it didn't feel.appropriate sharing a bowl of uncovered tea bags in the recovery room, along with biscuits and people having drinks and snacks in close proximity with masks off.

I think it was fair and fine to discuss these issues. Many posters commented they had had similar experiences at vaccine centres, and others encouragingly said they had had much better experiences at other centres which felt safer.

I take the point made by a couple of posters and Mumsnet on this current thread, that the title of my original thread could have been better. But other than that, I am not sure what I've done wrong or why you are so anti- my post/thread(?)

BIWI - I only mentioned I am ill today as people were asking why I've not reported it to the appropriate channels yet. I simply explained that when I am feeling better and back to work (hopefully tomorrow), I will raise it then. I cannot help being poorly today (and hence wasting my time scrolling through Mumsnet in bed!)

And BIWI - what's your agenda? Why the venum about my thread?

Does it really have to be pointed out to you again?

You are (you claim) an NHS worker. You have a responsibility, therefore, to ensure that other people are encouraged to take the vaccine. You must have realised that posting as you did, with your title, would scare people?

And there was a dripfeed - about how ill you have apparently become after the injection.

MNHQ didn't believe your claim to be an NHS worker either:

It was reported several times by posters who pointed out that the title was scaremongering and inflammatory (and when we looked, we did agree that it was) and as such was unlikely to have been posted by anyone who worked in the NHS. So it had to go.

And PP who are also NHS workers have pointed out how unprofessional this would be.

So there was plenty wrong with your post. However, MNHQ have left this thread up (which is very unusual for a TAAT). So you can stop posting so disingenuously about it now.

My agenda? To stop people posting nonsense about CV. To stop people scaring other people off having the vaccine.

There was a funny comment one person made, that the rozzers should be around those vaccination centres rounding people up because travelling all that way to have a cup of tea constituted a picnic!

This thread had degenerated into a tea and sandwiches discussion. I did notice a report in The Sun by Jane Moore which aimed to promote the vaccination role out at Epsom Racecourse - but the headline was how 'freezing' it was up there. Well, if visitors without care are having to queue in the outside cold for any time, that aint great.

But is this helpful? On the one hand you can say, the main thing is to get everyone to have their jabs, and that's fine.
But believe you me - if the elderly die of pneumonia some time after due to all this, nobody I mean nobody will be held to blame.
It may also seem that in the run-up to the May local County Council elections - where on current form the Conservatives are due to take a pasting just as the did in the local borough elections a year or so ago - the successful rollout is the one spark of good news that the Conservatives - in particular the Con flagship council Surrey - have to offer to avoid a political wipeout for the next five years.

So the quick rollout may be their priority.

Mumsnet - if Surrey get on your back about this, just delete the post, not the entire thread!

Well BIWI, how do I convince you my post was genuine? It seems really hard!

I am honestly an NHS worker. I was being genuine in my post. I have no hidden agenda!

Other people posting on my previous thread reported similar experiences, so it's not just me that's been to an unventilated vaccine centre that offers tea and biscuits!!

But it is impossible to convince you of my genuineness!! So maybe I should just give up :) 🤷

Buy the way, for future reference, how are posters meant to let other posters know they r real? It seems pretty hard!!

I thought we weren't allowed to question people's genuineness because it was like accusing someone of being.a troll, which we're not allowed to do...

I helped at a clinic on Sunday and the people were brought in in waves so we didn't have too many people in the 15 minute post jab waiting area. It was very well run, well spaced out and the people receiving their jabs were genuinely thankful it was being run. I was helping in the waiting area and have a lovely day and met some really nice people.

I was lucky enough to receive my jab as well and can no tell people how it works so they won't have to worry about going. No tea or coffee for the people waiting as we needed them gone after 15 minutes to make way for the next wave.

@CovidJabToday

Well BIWI, how do I convince you my post was genuine? It seems really hard!

I am honestly an NHS worker. I was being genuine in my post. I have no hidden agenda!

Other people posting on my previous thread reported similar experiences, so it's not just me that's been to an unventilated vaccine centre that offers tea and biscuits!!

But it is impossible to convince you of my genuineness!! So maybe I should just give up :) 🤷

Buy the way, for future reference, how are posters meant to let other posters know they r real? It seems pretty hard!!

I believe you. You haven't said anything 'unbelievable' that I can see and certainly nothing controversial.

It strikes me that the moderators were flexing their muscles when they removed your original thread.

Don't take it to heart and just carry on as normal.

@NewspaperTaxis

I thought we weren't allowed to question people's genuineness because it was like accusing someone of being.a troll, which we're not allowed to do...

That is right princess Poppy has left the building

@NewspaperTaxis

I thought we weren't allowed to question people's genuineness because it was like accusing someone of being.a troll, which we're not allowed to do...

I read something like that two or three weeks ago, before I joined Mumsnet; someone was accused of being a 'troll' because she doubted the authenticity of a thread. I haven't seen her (or him) since but I did look at the thread over a few days and the op hadn't returned :-). I can't remember what it was about now but it started off funny (humorous-funny).

Perhaps we ought to just take people at face value unless something is really outlandish.

@BIWI

And 'alternative views' are all too often of the tin-foil hat variety

I'm as far removed from 'tin-foil hatters' or 'anti-vaxxers' as you can get. And I always try to link to reputable sources when I post (e.g. BMJ)

That's why I find it very upsetting and concerning when I see posters on a mission to witch-hunt and shut down any opinions or ideas that deviate from what is considered 'acceptable' under the excuse that they are 'dangerous'.

Fanaticism and inanity are dangerous

that thread was helpful. It's clear that there are centres that are not properly following infection control, particularly in relation to air exchange and ventilation, and tea/biscuits/shared pens is ridiculous. If you witnessed something unsafe at your local hub it is very important to report it, hard to know who to though!

MNHQ have a bizarre history when it comes to any criticism of the NHS or any state workers for that matter. It usually involves a banning for being a troll. Hence the OP's name change presumably. She was banned for telling it like it is. I don't understand the reverence. It is this unquestioning blind faith in institutions which has led to countless, innumerable abuses of power and bad practice over generations. I suggest (politely, lest I be banned) that MNHQ think their fingers out of their ears or their arses and stop banning people for criticising institutions such as the NHS, the police, the council etc.

This forum should be about open discussion, but all too often, MNHQ have their bugbears and their own agendas (TWANW for e.g.) and their own causes. They should not be moderating based on personal views. It leaves the forum pretty useless.

It is entirely possible that a frontline NHS worker got vaccinated in a NHS unit by their NHS frontline colleagues along side their NHS colleagues. And that the NHS frontline worker was horrified that they were asked to share tea and biscuits with their colleagues. Clearly the most scary and horrifying moment of the last year.

If I had been shielding successfully up until now (no carers coming in, no kids at school, no working outside the home, shopping delivered), then right now the question bothering me would be whether I really am better going to be vaccinated right now or whether I'd do better to wait until infection rates have gone down in my community.

What vaccine centres are like is crucial to this question. From the sound of that thread, some are great and not a worry, some are perhaps more of a worry. There's clearly a compromise between perfect covid safety and getting lots of people vaccinated fast. For some individuals, this might genuinely be their riskiest exposure to other people for months, even if a centre is pretty good.

You can be as pro vaccines as Bill Gates and still have reasonably questions about what your local centre is like for safety.

Absolutely and some posters were were obviously real.

We all want people to be safe and not worry. I definitely want everyone free to express concerns. That is how things change for the better if there is a problem.

It is the main op that people are calling out. Not the conversation.

Mumsnet can be vulnerable to legal threats, I understand.

Some years ago there was a thread slagging off Checkatrade - a thread I heartily piled in on in. Checkatrade sent M'net a legal letter demanding they disclose the contact details on everyone on that thread. To its credit, Mumsnet refused but the thread was removed.

State organisations such as your local Council (County Council) are highly litigious without fear because they can take legal fees out of the public purse, that is, they use public money to harass the public. Nice! Money is no object, even when the Council is cash-strapped.

I've had a number of care home scandals in the press, both local and national - and neither dare to mention Surrey County Council's culpability despite evidence provided, nor breathe a word of my criticism, presumably for this reason, though you also wonder what the hell is going on. It really is rather disturbing.

The same goes largely for NHS CCGs - clap for carers is fine but dare me, the suits at the top are really rather sinister.
So it's not just Mumsnet behaving like this, though the effect can make us more like China than we'd like to admit. It becomes like we're ruled by some weird cult where secrecy is all despite no one being accountable anyway....

I found the original thread informative. It helped me to know I needed to take my own pen and to avoid the refreshment room.

I didn't see your post, but from what you've said and the mumsnet comment, it seems like the title should have been changed. Other than that, I still can't see why your post was removed or why mumsnet's explanation didn't really address why not just a title change, even if you are a new poster - so what? You come across very well and I think it's a bit poor that your post was deleted.