To ask if you're not getting the vaccine...

[Soitis83]

Then why? Just curious as to why some people will not get it

Is there any evidence that immunity from the vaccine is better/ stronger than immunity acquired by having had Covid already? It was my understanding that unlike the flu, whilst it is mutating, Covid isn’t fundamentally unstable (as for example cold and flu viruses are.) Which is why scientists posit the vaccine should work even against the new strain.

As far as I'm aware we don't have an answer to your first question as yet (also remember, there are now 3 vaccines being used in the UK, the mRNA ones work differently from the Oxford vaccine, so the strength of immunity may be different over time, thus the answer may differ between vaccines.) Normally, as COV-SARS-2 gains entry via the mucosal membranes of the nose and throat, that's where the first immune response would take place naturally, which is different from when you get a vaccine in your arm muscle. What difference this makes overall I don't know, I would love to hear more from virologists on this point.

The virus causing Covid isn't as stable as scientists had at first hoped it would be, even though it doesn't mutate as quickly as flu does, it's clear it is still mutating at a high enough rate to potentially threaten vaccine efficacy (we need more data from the SA variant). Also it was Chris Whitty who said that by vaccinating a large pool of people as we are doing, that will force the virus to mutate more.

@CrunchyCarrot

Also it was Chris Whitty who said that by vaccinating a large pool of people as we are doing, that will force the virus to mutate more.

Is this being positioned as a good thing? Finding it hard to work out how this would be a positive.....

I won’t be having it yet, but that’s as much by default as it is by choice as I’m not a higher risk group.

I’ve already had (long) Covid. Not sure the vaccine will offer better protection than the infection itself?

Not hearing enough about lots of people catching Covid for a second time even though some areas are being hit hard for a second time eg London & would have thought this should be becoming apparent by now maybe?

[quote ReadySteadyGo80]@CrunchyCarrot

Also it was Chris Whitty who said that by vaccinating a large pool of people as we are doing, that will force the virus to mutate more.

Is this being positioned as a good thing? Finding it hard to work out how this would be a positive.....[/quote]
I thought about this for awhile and I can't think that it is a good thing. Although a mutating virus will very often result in a weaker form of the virus, or an entirely harmless form, as we've already seen, there can be stronger forms resulting, too.

I find this fascinating, because whilst we are vaccinating the most vulnerable people (and that will take months here and maybe longer in other countries) there will still be a very large pool of unvaccinated people where the virus will carry on infecting and potentially mutating.

I came across a brilliant site the other day where the progress of mutation from the original Wuhan strain can be followed over the past year, and it is quite unnerving just how rapidly this virus has been changing. There are various setting on the left side where you can alter how the data is displayed, and yes it is pretty technical, but I think you can still get the idea. Click the Play button on the geography map.

nextstrain.org/groups/neherlab/ncov/S.N501

I hope all the people saying “Covid won’t really affect me so I won’t be having it” have never complained about the implications of lockdown. You do realise if you don’t take it when you get your turn you will be directly contributing to the problem .

@DeeCeeCherry

I want to wait until (hopefully) I can gauge that it's safe. If it was a cure-all the rich/elite would have their hands on it 1st, we would not be a priority. I feel as if we're guinea pigs.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, just came to my own conclusions. My Mum told me she was wary of Thalidomide in the early 1960s (when I was born) even when it was being touted as safe and people who thought it wasn't were scaremongers.

To have a particular vaccination or not is a private decision I don't see why people are being asked about it or as I've seen elsewhere on MN, harangued about it.

I feel the same actually. I’m going to hold off for a bit. I’m not in any of the categories who are eligible at present. So have time.

If it was a cure-all the rich/elite would have their hands on it 1st, we would not be a priority. I feel as if we're guinea pigs.

@DeeCeeCherry
Yes the government has decided to use the entire NHS capacity as 'guinea pigs on an 'unproven' vaccine in the middle of
a pandemic. Flawless logic

The Pfizer vax basically tells your cells to make the spike protein and then your body attacks those cell in an immune response, but how can they know (yet) whether the attack is limited to those cells and not other healthy cells (such as in the case of chemotherapy etc) or developing cells of the fetus? Genuinely interested to know the science behind that if anyone can shed light on it.

@TheDayAfter chemotherapy drugs are entirely different. They're essentially drugs that kill all cells that are growing/dividing. Because cancer is essentially abnormally fast cell growth/division, cancer is primarily affected by chemotherapy drugs, but other fast growing cells )pregnancy, hair growth) are often also affected. Vaccines don't work like that. They work by sensitising your immune system to a specific viral component (in this case the spike protein) which means if you're then exposed to the real thing (viral spike protein) you already have antibodies to that specific component. The antibodies don't affect anything else.

I dont like my dna being played with.
@Superfoodie123 how does the vaccine affect your DNA?

@SheeshazAZ09
Could you please link to the evidence base for the efficacy of homeopathy (on anything). As far as I'm aware there is none so it's interesting to understand how a researcher and science writer came to the conclusion that sugar diluted in water has any efficacy. Could you explain how it works please?

With the latest update to the priority groups I've been bumped up from the 2nd wave (had a wait time on the calculator thing of summer next year) to group 6 (I'm an unpaid carer)

I will admit I'm a bit nervous at the thought that I could be getting my vaccination anytime from next month. I don't usually have the flu jab despite being in the group that is offered it (due to asthma which has resolved) because I reacted quite badly to it when I did have it and actually felt like I had a severe cold/mild flu for about a week after and with a child that needs me to be on the ball 24/7 I cant risk being out of action for a week.

I'm also fairly sure I had covid Christmas 2019, I certainly had all the symptoms including the post viral syndrome that took months to resolve.

Still I will be having the vaccine when offered, because I can't afford to be as ill as I was over Christmas 2019 again. And my partner cares for his 70yo Mother and I dont want her getting ill.
Plus I want to get my life back ASAP, I really can't take much more of these restrictions

This is so interesting. Thank you. And yes I suppose we can only hope that the circulating virus in the remainder of the population evolves to become weaker. The terrifying alternative is that when all the ECV and everyone above a certain age have been vaccinated, the virus remaining in circulation could through selection pressure become the strain that favours the young and healthy. Entirely speculative of course, but it’s an interesting thought.

[quote MRex]@Streamside - you said that your relative's care home said patients with blood thinners weren't to have the vaccine. That isn't what BHF say, you may want to send them this link to encourage them to follow up: www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/coronavirus-vaccine-your-questions-answered.[/quote]
DH is on an anticoagulant, he has had other vaccinations eg flu with no problems. I think the vaccinator needs to be aware and take a bit more care, so perhaps that might mean that for purely practical reasons it would be better to use Oxford than high-speed Pfizer.

@Whatever9999

With the latest update to the priority groups I've been bumped up from the 2nd wave (had a wait time on the calculator thing of summer next year) to group 6 (I'm an unpaid carer)

I will admit I'm a bit nervous at the thought that I could be getting my vaccination anytime from next month. I don't usually have the flu jab despite being in the group that is offered it (due to asthma which has resolved) because I reacted quite badly to it when I did have it and actually felt like I had a severe cold/mild flu for about a week after and with a child that needs me to be on the ball 24/7 I cant risk being out of action for a week.

I'm also fairly sure I had covid Christmas 2019, I certainly had all the symptoms including the post viral syndrome that took months to resolve.

Still I will be having the vaccine when offered, because I can't afford to be as ill as I was over Christmas 2019 again. And my partner cares for his 70yo Mother and I dont want her getting ill.
Plus I want to get my life back ASAP, I really can't take much more of these restrictions

Group six is still going to be AGES away. Like, May.

Mind you... Where are you seeing you’re in group six @Whatever9999 - the website still says the 30th Dec update is the most recent?

@ViaGetty

Mind you... Where are you seeing you’re in group six *@Whatever9999* - the website still says the 30th Dec update is the most recent?

Unpaid carers were added in that update. The vaccine calculator has been recently updated to take it in to account too. I only knew because I saw an update on an autism fb page, so it's not been widely publicised. Those that get carers allowance or are the main carer of someone at risk.

Link to the page on the carers UK website

www.carersuk.org/news-and-campaigns/press-releases/carers-uk-welcomes-new-jcvi-advice-which-includes-unpaid-carers-in-the-vaccination-priority-list

@Whatever9999 thanks for the info! That's great news Am also in group six and think we have a while to wait, sadly!

The Pfizer vax basically tells your cells to make the spike protein and then your body attacks those cell in an immune response, but how can they know (yet) whether the attack is limited to those cells and not other healthy cells (such as in the case of chemotherapy etc) or developing cells of the fetus? Genuinely interested to know the science behind that if anyone can shed light on it.

Our cells employ a system that allows them to show other cells what is inside them (in this case, viral particles). They use molecules called class I major histocompatibility complex proteins (or MHC class I, for short) to display pieces of protein from inside the cell upon the cell surface. If the cell is infected with a virus, these pieces of peptide will include fragments of proteins made by the virus (or from the mRNA of the vaccine).

Healthy cells are left alone. Don't worry, our immune systems are incredibly clever!

@DeeCeeCherry
@ememem84

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55602007

I dispose this is 'fake news' ?

There is not yet proof the vaccine doesn’t stop you catching and then transmitting the virus, it only stops people who have received it from getting seriously ill. So why is it selfish if someone doesn’t want it, it only affects said person?

@bare123

There is not yet proof the vaccine doesn’t stop you catching and then transmitting the virus, it only stops people who have received it from getting seriously ill. So why is it selfish if someone doesn’t want it, it only affects said person?

Apart from the overstretched NHS resources, worried friends and family...

@Veterinari

No I understand elderly and at risk people getting it as they would most likely be the ones to end up in hospital and overstretch the resources, but I am talking about people that are low risk and have as much chance being hospitalised over covid symptoms as they would a bad reaction to the vaccine

[quote bare123]@Veterinari

No I understand elderly and at risk people getting it as they would most likely be the ones to end up in hospital and overstretch the resources, but I am talking about people that are low risk and have as much chance being hospitalised over covid symptoms as they would a bad reaction to the vaccine[/quote]
www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4470

I'm not aware of any vaccine risks that compare to long covid?

I’m sure these are just coincidences ☺️ doesn’t help to query though

amp.9news.com.au/article/9e10512b-538c-4c29-a2b0-358444e0b396

www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-mexico-vaccines/mexican-doctor-hospitalized-after-receiving-covid-19-vaccine-idUSKBN2970H3

[quote bare123]I’m sure these are just coincidences ☺️ doesn’t help to query though

amp.9news.com.au/article/9e10512b-538c-4c29-a2b0-358444e0b396

www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-mexico-vaccines/mexican-doctor-hospitalized-after-receiving-covid-19-vaccine-idUSKBN2970H3[/quote]
No it's probably not a coincidence - it's likely an anaphylactic response to the vaccine in a person with preexisting significant allergies.
Similar risks exist for all vaccines - it's the reasons why people with significant allergies are advised against vaccines and why all people are monitored for a period of time after vaccination. None of this is a surprise. It's pretty standard for all vaccines. But as with other licensed vaccines the risk of disease is greater than the risk of side effects.

Did you have an actual point or are you just trying at faux-innocent scaremongering by sharing a news story and trying to misrepresent it as a 'coincidence'?

@Veterinari

I am simply answering your question as you said you didn’t see or hear anything about effects of the vaccine? Obviously there are side effects with all vaccines, which is why I’m saying there is a small chance you could be hospitalised when receiving the vaccine just as there is the small chance low risk groups would be hospitalised with covid.

No it is not scaremongering, was your link to the statistics regarding the young people with long covid scaremongering?

I don’t understand anyone not having it. I’ve had it. I’m not a scientist so although I respect people having questions about it, disputing science as a non scientist seems ridiculous

TTC so no