Do you think tier five will happen

[Tellmelies65]

Or just just being said as scare tactic? What else could they really stop people doing?

On a fb b&m bargains group they openly flaunt their shopping trips and woebetide anyone that disagrees with them, literally 100s pile on saying if shops open its allowed. It's become a who can buy the most useless trolley full competition, always an odd item of food chucked in too justify the outing.

As I haven’t had so much as a cold this year despite living in a Covid hot spot I reckon that I’m pretty good at keeping myself germ free despite going for daily walks. The chances of catching it walking outside are at best remote.

in the first national lockdown, there never was a limit on how many times you could leave the house for exercise, nor for how long. Gove stupidly declared there was, presumably he hadn't read the legislation he had just voted for.
I've lived in plenty of places in the UK, nowhere where there were enough police to have them loitering on every street corner to check up on any passers-by & I've certainly never seen any out on the many footpaths around the town I live in. Given that they are already incapable of dealing with 'minor' crime such as burglary or car theft, I can hardly see them suddenly being able to enforce a curfew.

Where I am, our lockdown was go out for food and/or medicine once every three days and you had to apply for a permit to do that. No exercise, no dog walks, and a total nighttime curfew. That’s what you call a lockdown

No it's what you call a regime flexing its muscles for no reason.

Going out for a dog walk or a run does not spread the virus.

Also -what happened if you needed medicine sooner than 3 days? Illnesses don't follow schedules.

I don't think we will have a tier 5. A period of schools being shut, perhaps a further delay to in person university tuition, but not having much else.

Proper enforcement of each tier with real sanctions (loss of driving licence for travelling out of area for example) would probably achieve more, as would real quarantine for those arriving in the UK (hotel room for 10 days).

Loss of driving licence? How about an ankle tag? Maybe we could bring back the stocks on the village green while we're at it?

During the first lockdown a friend of my mum's was told to go home by the police when she left her home to go to the delicatessen for a takeaway coffee (which was more or less opposite her flat). There were some really stupid things going on in the first lockdown - eg like the drones in the peak district. Not sure the police had enough to do.

Proper enforcement of each tier with real sanctions (loss of driving licence for travelling out of area for example) would probably achieve more but what would the point be? If I live in postcode TQ1, how am I going to spread the virus if I go for a walk (or even a masked supermarket shop) in postcode area TQ2? It's a nonsense. So are night-time curfews - the virus doesn't come out at night!

Where I am, our lockdown was go out for food and/or medicine once every three days and you had to apply for a permit to do that. No exercise, no dog walks, and a total nighttime curfew. That’s what you call a lockdown

How many cases are attributable to exercise though, or dog walks? Or nighttime behaviour, if pubs etc are closed? I can see the case for schools closing, uni students staying put, once-weekly shopping only and other fairly restrictive measures, but I don't understand how my exercising 0-10 times a day by myself or at a distance from someone else makes a difference.

And reading comments on here, I think people can see that total lockdowns will not be successful. Some will just put two fingers up and carry on regardless. In fact, when you see how populations have dealt with this in other countries, it seems the people of the UK are seriously self entitled and another level of being snowflakes. Other governments in Europe have had their people toeing the line, because the people can appreciate that things have to be done, and will get on with it. Over here people moan, wring their hands, refuse to follow any rules which allow us to get out the other side of this virus by making feeble excuses.

they wont lockdown! so dramatic.

Treatment is better.
The vaccine is round the corner.
Tiers/regional best given numbers now are still massively lower than April

Proper enforcement of each tier with real sanctions (loss of driving licence for travelling out of area for example) would probably achieve more,

If you read the legislation though (not just what MPs say people shouldn’t do) you are perfectly allowed to leave your area. Those in tier 4 can only leave their house for set reasons, but if those reasons take them out of their area, that’s fine - distance travelled, length of time out of house, or staying to your area are not mentioned at all in the legislation. So if they decided they wanted to clamp down, first they need to actually update the legislation (and then seriously increase police numbers, which obviously can’t be done quickly).

@hopeishere

In NI at the minute your not supposed to leave the house between 8-6. And all retail closes at 8pm.

Tier 5 is schools closed.

I actually think they should extend retail opening hours, not restrict them, so you have fewer people in shops at once, and fewer queues to get in. Although I suppose not that many people go in after 8pm anyway.

@Theotherrudolph

Oh yes, we could also have numerous “bubbles” - plenty of scope to reduce those too. Obviously at great human cost to some people but there are a lot of people stretching “childcare” bubbles etc. For example you could mandate people can only be part of one bubble, of any type.

So what would happen to someone like my neighbour, who cares for his 91 year old mother and is part of a childcare bubble for his grandchildren?

@Livelovebehappy

And reading comments on here, I think people can see that total lockdowns will not be successful. Some will just put two fingers up and carry on regardless. In fact, when you see how populations have dealt with this in other countries, it seems the people of the UK are seriously self entitled and another level of being snowflakes. Other governments in Europe have had their people toeing the line, because the people can appreciate that things have to be done, and will get on with it. Over here people moan, wring their hands, refuse to follow any rules which allow us to get out the other side of this virus by making feeble excuses.

This is complete nonsense. We've had a much more reasonable lockdown, with common sense applied. Other governments have felt the need to require permits and stop people going out at all. That suggests a lesser propensity to comply, not a greater one.

Once again:

China did not get its pandemic under control by welding people into their houses---I mean, they did do that, but that was just infection control theater. What actually made the difference was centralized quarantine (or "out-of-home quarantine"). Where you put people in unused hotels rather than having them isolate at home.

China's government is vile, by the way, but several other Asian countries with decent human rights records also made use of centralized quarantine to good effect.

Unless you put CQ in place, no amount of "severe" lockdown will eradicate the disease because people will just infect each other within their own houses. Spain's ridiculously strict lockdown performed poorly for this reason, in large part. They were just locking infected people up in small flats with healthy people, so that the infected people were basically just breathing all over healthy people all day and all night within a confined space.

its about balance - for every disease and virus out there, theres always been 'an acceptable level of deaths' - as in we don't lock country down or flu despite thousands of annual deaths, we still sell cigs despite cancer etc. At some point (now imo) we admit we have reached that level and let life carry on

annevonkleeve the night time curfews are proposed because I guess the majority of gatherings, especially amongst young people, happen during the evening. That’s when the majority of partying and potential lack of social distancing happens. Most people are either in work or education during the daytime.

I think they are going to put it in place for New Year, Restrictions on when you can leave your house and curfew

Plus people can just leave phones at home of course.

I think it was an offense in South Korea for example to do that. So you would risk being stopped and arrested.

acorn -i find people using elderly GPs for childcare more selfish than any rule breaker

its cross generation mixing that's the problem and bubbles allow this it has to stop. Who'd risk their elderly relatives by letting them mix with the most likely infectious!

@Pastanred

they wont lockdown! so dramatic.

Treatment is better.
The vaccine is round the corner.
Tiers/regional best given numbers now are still massively lower than April

Hospital admissions are a few hundred short of the April peak so how can you say cases are lower? Within two weeks the NHS expects to be significantly over this number.

How about we introduce martial law? Anybody out without a valid reason can then be shot by the military. Anyone testing positive and their contacts can be welded into their homes for a two week period. Anyone not loudly and publicly overjoyed with the above should be stripped naked, tarred and feathered.

@notevenat20

Plus people can just leave phones at home of course.

I think it was an offense in South Korea for example to do that. So you would risk being stopped and arrested.

And if you haven't got a smartphone? If carrying it became compulsory mine would meet a nasty end.

All restrictions (including the current ones) are completely unenforceable. Yes, they’ll catch the odd rule breaker; however, like most laws, they’re policed by consent. To work the government need to take the public with them. They need to convince most people that the rules are necessary and legitimate. It’s something they’ve completely failed to do since the beginning.

All this talk of curfews, virtual house arrest and hard lockdown is total bollocks, and will never happen or work.

@notevenat20

Plus people can just leave phones at home of course.

I think it was an offense in South Korea for example to do that. So you would risk being stopped and arrested.

I suppose the culture is different - everyone has a smartphone. Wouldn't work here. It would be a bit harsh to arrest DH for being a luddite!