Do you judge people for 'minor' rule breaks?

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So ten months into a pandemic- whether you agree with the harshness of the rules or not- I think most people would agree that the average person is likely to struggle with lockdown fatigue and wavering compliance.

So my question is, do you judge people for minor rule breaks? ie:

• someone seeing their partner who lives in another household, indoors (whether this be for mental health, or the fact most adult romantic relationships require physical contact)
• parents visiting uni students in halls
• grown adults visiting elderly parents who are lonely and isolated

If you think about it, if you live in some places up North, it's been illegal to see your partner who you don't live with for six months, providing you're not in a support bubble. And I know you can see people outdoors, but that's not conducive to a normal relationship. Or, in the case of the elderly, not healthy or comfortable.

So would you judge people for the above rule breaks, if it was genuinely they only tine they mixed with another household? And there is no support bubble?

This thread is mostly pointless, however I am simply wondering if anyone else is finding it hard now!

The above scenarios are all ones I know people in real life have done and I do not judge them. Apart from that, they wear masks, limit contact and mostly WFH.

@justa47 its not just rule breakers even doing things within the rules will be risky
Catching covid of you child who has been to school where a lot of cases have come from is not due to breaking the rules
You do realise even going shopping there is a chance you could catch it sd and masks help reduce the spread not stop it
Although some rule breakers will catch due to breaking the rules and pass on many will catch it just living life but following the rules

We broke the rules today. We met my in laws to go for a walk and exchanged presents in a socially distanced way in a car park. We cancelled our trip to spend Christmas with them and our brother in law's family on the 23rd when we went into tier 4.

We've been inside for two weeks, bar one of us doing a weekly food shop and the same for them. I'd be amazed if us sitting 2 metres apart in a car park spread Covid to each other given we've barely left the house. But it was still contrary to the rules (and bloody freezing...).

I think most people are doing their best. I don't judge them for minor rule breaks, I empathise with them. I don't agree with people blatantly flaunting rules such as hosting a party

@Thethingswedoforlove The rules talk of adults in a relationship which I believe would be 18+ in Scotland though 16 yo can vote and marry so maybe 16+ is enough.

I can't seem to link but here's a screen shot. It's from scot.gov

Thank you @LizzieMacQueen

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

When did I ever say those things didn’t happen? I didn’t
But people who break the rules add to it.
That’s why their are rules.

@Nicknacky

Do t think I ever said that.
I think I said the cumulative effect.
Not the main
Again I feel it might to too complex a concept to explain to you.

And why,,,,,guilt..., as you protest too much.
To ease your troubled mind.

someone seeing their partner who lives in another household, indoors (whether this be for mental health, or the fact most adult romantic relationships require physical contact)

Single Adults are still allowed to be in a support bubble with another single adult household.

Well I know someone who spent Xmas day (from tier 4) with their recently widowed mum, because her support bubble (other child) was self isolating. Technically that’s a breach of the rules but you’d hardly leave someone alone on Xmas day when they’d been widowed that year!

Yes. I do.

utah

I don't judge minor rule breaks and have probably done some myself. What I do judge is so called 'celebrities' doing what they want and going about here, there and everywhere as they can afford to pay or donate whatever fine they may get. Lockdowns with fines as punishment are for the poorer and middle people, the rich can just afford to buy themselves out of it.

I lead a quiet life in a seaside town so have had access to two huge beaches and lots of walking in open air. I'm also a dog owner do out walking always meet and talk to numerous dog walkers at a safe distance. But I've broken the rules right from.the start and so have most of my friends. None of my friends have caught the virus despite all of our minor infringements. Not one member of our families have caught it either. I also know people who have been self isolating since March and who are now slowly going mad from.the isolation and the paranoia.

I wasn’t particularly fussed when cases were low in our area, and we also bent the rules slightly (7 instead of 6, but only two households etc). We were sociable in the summer, but not excessively so, and not frequently.

However, we currently find ourselves in a situation worse than in April in terms of prevalence and spread, so yes, right now I do judge people who can’t manage to obey the rules. I went for a walk in the park the other day and it was full of groups of people walking together - several were 4x adults plus 2x buggies and other kids (clearly mixed households), several groups of 4 adults running, several groups with 6+ adults, (2 older plus rest young - so parents plus adult children). It was completely unbelievable- we are in T4, and our rates are rapidly climbing. It’s worth noting that we went for a walk somewhere more remote a few days earlier and saw similar but I was less bothered by that because we saw fewer people overall, it was largely deserted.

@Flamingolingo

Yes we are reaping what the rule breakers have sewn.
They appear to be full of rationalisations and denials as they find it hard to face the suffering they are contributing too.

I guess I would make a judgment call, based on my knowledge and understanding. I would not judge people for socially distanced outdoor meetings with fewer than around 6 people, as I think the risk of spread is minuscule.

I would, however, judge people very harshly for ‘gross’ breaches, such as parties, mass runs or cycles with the athletes in close formation (saw what appeared to be a running club out in a badly hit London area).

I would use the same thought process as I would to judge speeding. Someone driving on an empty motorway at 90mph in a good car is not an issue, someone weaving in and out of traffic at 90mph at night on a crowded motorway I would judge very harshly.

I don’t think a lot of people understand statistical risk. They would judge a shoplifter taking £20 of cosmetics from boots but not someone who has some friends over for dinner during an epidemic. Statistically the latter poses a far greater danger to society.

@Justa47 I think the issue here is that we are one of those areas that was in T2 up until Boxing Day and Christmas was allowed to go ahead. People mostly aren’t looking at the numbers, but by Christmas Day we were at >350/100k across the whole city, and >800/100k in two small areas. People just have no idea.

I’ve been a staunch believer in the importance of keeping schools open all through this but now I find myself really concerned that our numbers are about to skyrocket and we will open the schools here at exactly the wrong time. I guess it comes back to the situation escalating rapidly and people not realising how fast it is changing.

@Flamingolingo

I agree.

The rules allow for a lot of leeway in the care and support and risk of harm exceptions. There is also a lot of "without good reason" and "without reasonable excuse". Some of those accusing others of breaking rules in some situations don't actually understand the rules themselves.

Under,

The problem is that we are not really enforcing the rules anyway but relying on people exercising judgment.

However, on average, they aren’t. Using ‘this is what viruses’ do as an excuse just doesn’t wash. Virus suppression is perfectly doable and the majority of the world have done it. They are looking down on us pityingly are the moment as our NHS is cracking and on the point of collapse.

Self diagnosed ‘MH issues’ (often just feeling fed up and glum, as are we all) as an excuse to host a dinner party or meet friends indoors for coffee is just plain selfish and should be called out as such.

When people decide to (egregiously) break the rules because ‘they just can’t do it any more’, they are increasing deaths, disease burden AND mental health issues for many other people.

"The problem is that we are not really enforcing the rules anyway but relying on people exercising judgment."

Some of the rules are about people exercising judgement. People who want all the rules not to allow that are wanting different rules not the existing ones.

Under,

The guidance is to exercise intelligent judgment. Those looking for loop holes, as opposed to trying to protect society, can be morally, albeit not legally judged.

"The guidance is to exercise intelligent judgment."

Correct and ultimately a court could decide if someone has done that or not.

Those looking for loop holes, as opposed to trying to protect society, can be morally, albeit not legally judged.

Some people looking for loopholes are looking to see if their circumstances are covered because that is what the 'loopholes' exist for. Of course as with everything else some will be taking the piss.

Let's not forget that some of the rules were changed or at least clarified because people looked at them and decided there was a problem with them. The distance travelled from home in regards to people with learning disabilities, autism etc was one changed early on.

I was surprised when my local police force posted in the fb page about non payment of fines issued for breaking lockdown rules. One was to a man caught visiting his girlfriend in April. I know it was against rules then but now it's fine to have a support bubble.

I had to go to DP's house over Easter Bank Holiday weekend. The toilet waste pipe was leaking, couldn't get hold of letting agents on phone because the offices were closed. I reported it online on Good Friday, the usual out of hours number wasn't answered. I sent the kids to their dad's, turned off the water and went to DP's house. I had no flipping choice!