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The logistical issue with closing primary schools...

515 replies

Jourdain11 · 26/12/2020 17:13

Just want to say at the start that, in saying this, I do not in any way mean to undermine teachers' and school staffs' right to work in a safe environment. But there is a big logistical issue with the closure of primary schools, assuming that childcare arrangements would also be knocked out.

In the spring, a huge number of people were either wfh or furloughed. That is no longer the case to the same extent. Since the rules/guidance now is to "work from home unless you cannot do your job at home", there are many, many more people who are expected to go into work, at least on a part-time schedule.

Which creates a huge issue in terms of primary-aged children doing remote learning from home. Either you end up with a pretty large number of "key worker" or "unable to learn from home" children going into school (which creates issues for staff in terms of providing in-school staffing and online provision simultaneously, and also slightly defeats the point of the entire exercise); or you have thousands of parents having to resign their jobs, take unpaid leave, beg for time off or whatever (which is clearly very far from ideal). Or you end up with parents simply saying, "I pay taxes for my children to be educated in school and it is their right to receive this education" and sending them in anyway.

Seems the only way around this would be either to have a "short, sharp" shutdown with a (for example) 2-week timelimit, which might be more manageable for both parents and school staff. Or to stay open and increase hygiene measures in PSs, or at least strive to make them equal across all schools.

Thoughts?

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Jourdain11 · 27/12/2020 18:43

I totally agree, it's not helpful when anyone starts taking pot shots! My DH is a primary teacher and I know how hard and dull this term has been (in what he calls "the joyless exam factory", as they are - supposed to be, anyway - SATS year).

The irony is that, if we end up having a closure in January, his work (and therefore his pupils) will end up suffering if my two DDs and DS (8, 7 and 5) are home. I'm due for (hopefully) my last two chemo cycles, so will be little use to anyone BlushHmm

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CallmeAngelGabriel · 27/12/2020 18:43

I'm Primary and have received notification from my HT today to get back up to speed with our online learning platform before next week.

Make of that what you will.

ElizabethG81 · 27/12/2020 18:43

It does get a little confusing though, as several posters on this thread have said schools need to be closed throughout January, and someone else said until March. The OP made a mistake by saying a month off was the unions' suggestion, there's no need to go on and on at her.

To be honest, the only place I'm seeing suggestions that primaries should close is here. Let's hope it remains a solely MN view.

ragged · 27/12/2020 18:45

I wonder what some on MN will obsess about when PPE in school is allowed (or required) and still the epidemic rages.

Jourdain11 · 27/12/2020 18:46

I have to say as well, that sentence in the Guardian is at best unclear and at worst intentionally misleading, so I think they should be clarifying themselves too.

Thanks though - it was an unintentional slip!

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Fedup21 · 27/12/2020 18:48

To be honest, the only place I'm seeing suggestions that primaries should close is here.Let's hope it remains a solely MN view

The comments from local parents on Facebook and the comments on any school post on the Daily Mail online seem strongly in favour of primaries shutting as well, which is interesting.

PrettyGreen24 · 27/12/2020 19:11

@XmasSkies2020

"If my primary school and nursery close for more than a couple of weeks and my childminder is forced to close like last time, I simply won’t accept it.".
This is STAGGERING - they are your children.

"I’m a manager and really busy at work" ... are you saying you're too important to be bothered with this and look after your children otherwise why is this relevant information?

"So for welfare reasons I will insist they take my children this time"
..... You're going to make this happen how?

The virus is not going away because it's being spread in schools. It's very, VERY obvious but people are willing to ignore it (including the Government) because it suits them. People are dying.
Teachers cannot social distance and are doing EVERYTHING they can but it's not working. What do you suggest?

GleamingBaubles · 27/12/2020 19:11

@ragged

I wonder what some on MN will obsess about when PPE in school is allowed (or required) and still the epidemic rages.
Surely we need to at least try some mitigations against an airborne virus? Other than hand gel and wishful thinking? Masks are the absolute minimum! We should also have air filters for classrooms that cannot be adequately ventilated, smaller bubble sizes, and that's the minimum that the WHO advise.
christinarossetti19 · 27/12/2020 19:15

I think that's right GleamingBaubles.

No-one wants schools to close, but they will be either all at once or one by one as staff become ill and/or have to socially isolate unless widescale mandatory mitigation measures are brought in.

They will need to be funded by central government, and it's hard to imagine that happening but we can live in hope.

GoldenOmber · 27/12/2020 19:17

are you saying you're too important to be bothered with this and look after your children

FYI that same poster talks about being suicidal last lockdown later on in the thread, maybe not the best opportunity to give her a kicking.

I don’t think I’m too important after my own children either, but I am still unable to adequately do that and do my job at the same time.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 27/12/2020 19:24

@PrettyGreen24 no, people are saying they cannot work properly while looking after their children at the same time. Do you think working to keep a roof over your head isn't important?

MessAllOver · 27/12/2020 19:38

Teachers cannot social distance and are doing EVERYTHING they can but it's not working. What do you suggest?

A few options have been suggested on this thread if schools have to close, including smaller "childcare" bubbles, greater legal protections for parents and making furlough available for all parents of primary school children.

This is STAGGERING - they are your children.

Saying that doesn't solve the issue - people can't simultaneously work and provide childcare for young children. The reason most of us will refuse to do it this time round is because we want our children looked after properly (either by us or by someone else). We're not content to subject them to weeks and weeks of frankly neglectful care again. My son is my number 1 priority - these are his most formative years and I'm determined he will be cared for properly this time around.

Jourdain11 · 27/12/2020 19:56

@CallmeAngelGabriel

I'm Primary and have received notification from my HT today to get back up to speed with our online learning platform before next week.

Make of that what you will.

I don't mean this rudely at all, but I'd guess it's just your HT's thoughts and wanting to plan for what he thinks may happen.

My DH is also primary and received no such notification. But there's probably sense in teachers being prepped for online as much as possible anyway, as there could be numerous isolating year groups and absent kids next term if the schools are open.

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wondersun · 27/12/2020 20:00

@Fedup21

To be honest, the only place I'm seeing suggestions that primaries should close is here.Let's hope it remains a solely MN view

The comments from local parents on Facebook and the comments on any school post on the Daily Mail online seem strongly in favour of primaries shutting as well, which is interesting.

Yes I’ve seen it on Twitter a lot too and read about all school closures in other online articles. I think they’re protesting too much. The farce has caught up with them. They’ve not put any specimen dates on since 22nd December, December 21st is showing around 45000 with that specimen date. There is no way things are going to be okay enough in a week to risk anymore transmission. If they’re open and you are concerned and can keep at home please do!
Jourdain11 · 27/12/2020 20:02

I feel super sorry for teachers who have all this stress and anxiety for sure, but I'm also very sympathetic to the worries it causes to some parents. Acknowledging one doesn't mean that you're disregarding the other.

My DD1 will probably be overjoyed if she doesn't have to go to school, since she needs 1-to-1 support but is only presently able to get it 3 mornings a week. Every day, getting her in is an absolute nightmare and she gets very overwhelmed in the classroom. But I'm actually dreading her being out of school because I think it will be impossible to get her back into routine if there's a very lengthy break. The other two will be upset not to go, but actually I'm far less worried - they'll be able to get on with whatever they're set, and they'll be very happy when they are able to go back.

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Fedup21 · 27/12/2020 20:05

@MessAllOver

Teachers cannot social distance and are doing EVERYTHING they can but it's not working. What do you suggest?

A few options have been suggested on this thread if schools have to close, including smaller "childcare" bubbles, greater legal protections for parents and making furlough available for all parents of primary school children.

This is STAGGERING - they are your children.

Saying that doesn't solve the issue - people can't simultaneously work and provide childcare for young children. The reason most of us will refuse to do it this time round is because we want our children looked after properly (either by us or by someone else). We're not content to subject them to weeks and weeks of frankly neglectful care again. My son is my number 1 priority - these are his most formative years and I'm determined he will be cared for properly this time around.

Yes, the government need to be clear to employers that they need to be flexible with their staff who are affected by school closures.
GleamingBaubles · 27/12/2020 20:08

I can't (re)plan my lessons for next week as I don't know what's happening.
I feel really unsafe in school having taught several pupils who subsequently tested positive, but I'm not in their bubble so couldn't self isolate.
I havea terminally ill (cancer) FIL, and DM with COPD. We are bubbled with FIL so he can see his grandchildren in the time.he has left. Yet we are exposing him.every time we see him.

And yet I'm also a parent who found it impossible to teach from home, don't have enough devices for all my children, one of whom has ASD and will also struggle to return after a long absence.

It's a lose-lose

Jourdain11 · 27/12/2020 20:19

@GleamingBaubles

I can't (re)plan my lessons for next week as I don't know what's happening. I feel really unsafe in school having taught several pupils who subsequently tested positive, but I'm not in their bubble so couldn't self isolate. I havea terminally ill (cancer) FIL, and DM with COPD. We are bubbled with FIL so he can see his grandchildren in the time.he has left. Yet we are exposing him.every time we see him.

And yet I'm also a parent who found it impossible to teach from home, don't have enough devices for all my children, one of whom has ASD and will also struggle to return after a long absence.

It's a lose-lose

That does sound stressful and I'm sorry - I hope it all works out in the least worst way. Let's hope the plan is at least communicated soon, whatever it is!
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PaTCh64355 · 27/12/2020 20:28

@GoldenOmber

I'm not bored of the subject, I'm just pointing out that you could do a search and find lots of suggestions esp by those actually working in education.

‘Do a search’, like I haven’t bothered reading any of those threads? All of which always end up like this?

No-one's trying to stop you talking about the problems of trying to care for young children whilst also work at home.

Well it would help a bit if every single thread about it didn’t go the same way.

“Argh this is impossible, how can I look after a toddler and homeschool and do my job?”
“Well what about teachers?”
“Yes I’m sure teachers are in a very horrible situation and I don’t support that, but meanwhile, how am I supposed to do this?”
“We all need to cut down on transmission.”
“Yes I absolutely agree, and yet, here I am with a toddler and primary age children and a very demanding job where I can’t get furloughed, what does the government expect me to DO?”
“The virus doesn’t care about your inconvenience just because it’s easier for you not to look after your own children.”
“But how do I do this? Like practically, get up at 6am, feed toddler, turn on computer, then what?”
“Well think creatively.”
“Like WHAT? Seriously this is NOT POSSIBLE.”
“It’s not the job of schools to fix this for you.”
aaaaaargh...

This 100% . People talk about furlough as if it’s the answer for everything. It’s not available for lots of people and even if it was it would be a massive pay cut and unaffordable.

Wanting to talk about how to look after our children at the same time as trying to hold down a full time job is not minimising the pressure teachers are under. It is shit all round.

PaTCh64355 · 27/12/2020 20:34

@PrettyGreen24 your comments are not helpful and also very unkind .

Of course people take responsibility for their own children- but in what other times have women been asked to work full time plus provide full time childcare. For those of us who faced this in the spring we are understandably anxious and worried now as we know how impossible it is. Our children deserve more than this

Waxonwaxoff0 · 27/12/2020 20:45

Employers can't be flexible if you cannot physically do your job from home like mine.

UneFoisAuChalet · 27/12/2020 21:00

@Waxonwaxoff0

Employers can't be flexible if you cannot physically do your job from home like mine.
In my home country, they have a ‘law’ in place that allows (orders?) employers to be flexible regarding all things Covid. If you can provide evidence that you are unable to work because of Covid, they cannot fire you.

Obviously, school closures fall under this, but more importantly (higher % of the workforce do not have primary age children) if you fall ill with Covid (and other diseases) you are protected.

Is the UK Coronavirus Act available to the public? I’m assuming there would be some type of coverage for people who cannot receive furlough 🤷‍♀️ ?

GoldenOmber · 27/12/2020 21:03

That is awful, GleamingBaubles.

ChloeDecker · 27/12/2020 21:07

Your post was not very helpful PrettyGreen24 but I can appreciate you a very stressed at the moment. I think a lot of people are very worried right now with situations that are specific to them. Doesn’t make them any less valid than others though.

It does worry me that employers will be stuck and not able to provide any flexibility and what that knock on effect will be.

Limemoon · 27/12/2020 21:08

Yes, there should be some employment protection law enforced if Covid school closures are forced down our throats.