The logistical issue with closing primary schools...

[Jourdain11]

Just want to say at the start that, in saying this, I do not in any way mean to undermine teachers' and school staffs' right to work in a safe environment. But there is a big logistical issue with the closure of primary schools, assuming that childcare arrangements would also be knocked out.

In the spring, a huge number of people were either wfh or furloughed. That is no longer the case to the same extent. Since the rules/guidance now is to "work from home unless you cannot do your job at home", there are many, many more people who are expected to go into work, at least on a part-time schedule.

Which creates a huge issue in terms of primary-aged children doing remote learning from home. Either you end up with a pretty large number of "key worker" or "unable to learn from home" children going into school (which creates issues for staff in terms of providing in-school staffing and online provision simultaneously, and also slightly defeats the point of the entire exercise); or you have thousands of parents having to resign their jobs, take unpaid leave, beg for time off or whatever (which is clearly very far from ideal). Or you end up with parents simply saying, "I pay taxes for my children to be educated in school and it is their right to receive this education" and sending them in anyway.

Seems the only way around this would be either to have a "short, sharp" shutdown with a (for example) 2-week timelimit, which might be more manageable for both parents and school staff. Or to stay open and increase hygiene measures in PSs, or at least strive to make them equal across all schools.

Thoughts?

Lol I'm a member of that union and hadn't been informed that they'd written another (weak) letter asking for remote learning for 2 weeks! . The gov just ignore all their letters anyway - they have no power

If you're interested in accuracy, I'd suggest that you read my posts accurately too - please.

As someone who has had a primary aged child at home for over a month very recently and I work full time, there are two main logistical issues to consider here:

A) actual physical childcare-who can be at home with the child or where can the child go for childcare
B) how does that child get educated.

For A) this needs to be on the govt to consider and parents to find out what is available to them -this can involve talking to their employers or sourcing alternative childcare but for many, thanks to the government, this will be very difficult and this makes me very cross at the govt.

For B) this is mostly for the schools to deal with and it’s helpful for parents, if they have individual issues (such as needing alternatives to computer based work), to contact their school and schools should be happy to adapt (as long as some parents realise it still may not be perfect).

However, I think a lot of us parents need to realise that expecting full days of education remotely, for primary children is unrealistic and to not discount using weekends to do some of the more formal learning. It’s what I had to do.
For those children with SEND, are vulnerable etc. all plans discussed so far in any tier, allow those children to physically be in school and if councils or schools go against this guidance, I would raise it as loudly as I could, to MPs, councillors, social media, local newspapers and to the schools themselves etc.

Jourdain11 I do agree with you that a definitely time limit on any planned closures of school sites (other than for keyworker, SEN, vulnerable and children without online access at home) would be better for everyone.

BUT there would need to be a caveat about acceptable levels of transmission, mandatory mitigation measures in schools (backed up by govt funding), and a flexible plan to gradually increase on site numbers which wouldn't be possible with a 'set in stone' date.

Which gets us back to the same position that no-one wants about indefinite school closures.

ChloeDecker I think you're right. That the issues around childcare and how children are educated need to be split.

It's not realistic to expect some sort of magical online package from school which does both at the same time for primary school aged children.

I'm not bored of the subject, I'm just pointing out that you could do a search and find lots of suggestions esp by those actually working in education.

‘Do a search’, like I haven’t bothered reading any of those threads? All of which always end up like this?

No-one's trying to stop you talking about the problems of trying to care for young children whilst also work at home.

Well it would help a bit if every single thread about it didn’t go the same way.

“Argh this is impossible, how can I look after a toddler and homeschool and do my job?”
“Well what about teachers?”
“Yes I’m sure teachers are in a very horrible situation and I don’t support that, but meanwhile, how am I supposed to do this?”
“We all need to cut down on transmission.”
“Yes I absolutely agree, and yet, here I am with a toddler and primary age children and a very demanding job where I can’t get furloughed, what does the government expect me to DO?”
“The virus doesn’t care about your inconvenience just because it’s easier for you not to look after your own children.”
“But how do I do this? Like practically, get up at 6am, feed toddler, turn on computer, then what?”
“Well think creatively.”
“Like WHAT? Seriously this is NOT POSSIBLE.”
“It’s not the job of schools to fix this for you.”
aaaaaargh...

I’ve given suggestions GoldenOmber.
What would help you and your specific situation, logistically? I completely understand how frustrating this is.

Sorry, I shouldn’t say that the government advice has been totally useless. Behold, the incredibly helpful Scottish Government-supported guidance on how to do it!

I think only one person on this thread has said anything about 'because it's easier for you not to look after your own children' haven't they?

Clearly there aren't easy answers, but I'm not stopping you talking about the problems.

OP I have never called you an idiot. I. Sorry if I came over a bit strong but I'm so fed up of conditions in school and your thread has come across as faux naive. Especially as you are pretty disparaging about posters on here on the other thread.
For example - You have not commented on ideas for keeping schools open safely - just fixated on a 2 week firebreak - which will just get us 2 weeks then we are straight back in with no mitigations. personally I'm more interested in measures that will mean we don't have to close schools. As a teacher I am very aware of how important schools are.

Oh no GoldenOmber that really is rubbing the salt in! Do we think Rishi needs to step in financially and help further? How much power does he have for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales?

Surely the biggest logistical nightmare at the moment for teachers, parents and pupils is the announcement of such closure. I understand things can change quickly in these situations but for all concerned a decision needs to be made sooner rather than later. We are in a very different situation to March when schools closed as so much was unknown about the virus then .

The thing is it is not for schools to set up childcare if schools switch to remote learning.
It is for the government - but they just CBA.
With libraries, community centres, etc closed there is space for bubble childcare. Parks and carparks can have festival style accommodation - no festivals allowed so the facilities would be available.
As in true bubbles of 15, not like the bubbles of 500 in my school.
Staffed by the currently unemployed instrument, drama, singing, sports, gymnastics teachers etc.

@ChloeDecker

I’ve given suggestions GoldenOmber. What would help you and your specific situation, logistically? I completely understand how frustrating this is.

I think boosting furlough would do a lot ChloeDecker, even if I wouldn’t be personally eligible for it (am public sector so can’t qualify currently). I would suggest a combination of

• increased furlough with increased legal rights and employment protections around furlough;
• more business support targeted specifically at employers who can’t operate if all their working parents are off (smaller places especially), treating them effectively the same as businesses forced to close by restrictions;
• general public understanding that a lot of services are just not going to happen across the public sector, because we’ll do our best but we just can’t do everything;
• increased ‘WFH if at all possible’ legislation
• acknowledging that a lot of children add just not going to get much hole education, and providing resources for schools to support that once schools can fully reopen.

I think furlough needs to be extended to public sector workers.

That’s a very sensible post GoldenOmber
Those measures would really help many families and could help lots of industries. It’s sad that they probably won’t be considered.

I hope the government are reading this thread!

@GoldenOmber are there any more nuggets of your government advice? I fancy a good laugh!

We need part time furlough if we are to juggle both homeschool and working with any degree of success. And employment legally protected so we don’t get sacked / redundant as a result. Unsure if the government can see this, given that it’s mostly white men on their 40’s and 50’s who probably can’t see what the big deal is and why it needs funding.

Not Boris saying “I expect employers to be understanding”

@GleamingBaubles

OP I have never called you an idiot. I. Sorry if I came over a bit strong but I'm so fed up of conditions in school and your thread has come across as faux naive. Especially as you are pretty disparaging about posters on here on the other thread. For example - You have not commented on ideas for keeping schools open safely - just fixated on a 2 week firebreak - which will just get us 2 weeks then we are straight back in with no mitigations. personally I'm more interested in measures that will mean we don't have to close schools. As a teacher I am very aware of how important schools are.

I'm sorry for any disparaging comments, but I was fed up about being called out for things I'd never said. And I was fed up that this turned into another teachers vs parents slanging match.

I don't see how anything I said is faux naive or even naive-naive. I never said it's the responsibility of schools to stay open. I said perhaps we should talk about the reasons why it causes such problems (ergo the reason why people feel so strongly).

I get that the demands on teachers at the moment are unacceptable. But I think you're taking your frustration out on me, and it isn't fair.

OP why not ask for your comment about the unions asking for a month long closure to be deleted?

Okay, happy to do so, although not sure how it is done!

Can I just ask like so, @MNHQ, please could you delete that post?

At 15.31 in p14 - but I've also reported it myself as inaccurate, so perhaps that is more straightforward.

Primary schools wont close.

I'm sorry for any disparaging comments, but I was fed up about being called out for things I'd never said. And I was fed up that this turned into another teachers vs parents slanging match.

I’m sorry it felt that way to you and I apologise if I contributed to that. I do think though, that the posters who came on this thread and took pot shots at teachers (not you OP) should also be called out too, which pretty much started the derailment and this the defensive comments from some teachers!
Honestly though, so many of us are all parents and trying to navigate this minefield that the govt have put us in, which could have been so different.
We are were we are though, so I agree that support from all sides would helps us get through this a little easier

@1992serpent

Primary schools wont close.

On what grounds do you say that?

Wishful thinking?