Anti vaxxers in full force today!

[Shekinah1]

I keep seeing anti vaccine threads. False info about immunity passports and that the vaccine is going to be compulsory.

It is not going to be compulsory.

Health passports are going to be ridiculously hard to implement they can’t even manage track and trace fgs.

Get a grip

It’s not zero risk though, is it? I know someone who has long covid after getting it in the spring - she is 20s, low bmi, was in good health. What makes you think you have zero risk of this happening to you? I mean, it probably won’t, you would have to be very unlucky, but it’s not zero.

Well of course it is not zero for me - as you say nothing is - but my rough assessment based my current health, vitamin d status etc is that it’s a risk I’m very happy to take. I actively check my vitamin d level, for example.

No idea what a mRNA vaccine does longer term. None whatsoever.

@ReeseWitherfork

But how does the average person do this?

I think for me, I try to read from as many sources as possible. The 'official' views, companies websites, etc but also sources that maybe have a more critical view or seem to be more independent and non-invested (e.g. BMJ, newspaper articles)

And how do we know who to trust?

I think trust in this day and age is difficult. For me it's more about having a variety of sources with as much information as possible and keeping a sceptical and open mind at the same time

Careful truly or you will be accused of questioning clever scientists who have had years of training

I do the same by the way. I read the research study results for lots of things. It’s not actually difficult to read studies but understanding their quality takes longer in terms of type/size/issues/funding and bias. There are also lots of research not published because it’s unfavourable!

@trulydelicious I usually trust fullfact but they’re yet to publish much. I hadn’t seen anything in the BMJ that wasn’t regurgitating the standard (i.e. the results from the trials). Perhaps I’ll feel more assured when the phase 3 results have been peer reviewed.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

@Bushola

To be fair the pro vaxers are as bad as the anti vaxers.

It’s the pro/anti mask, pro/anti lockdown and Leave/Remain fights all over again both sides of each were as bad as each other in each of those issues.

Uh no it isn't. Brexit is a matter of opinion, at least it was in 2016 when the decision was made . Masks had very little evidence one way or another about use in the community although that is changing

Vaccines have been used on billions of people worldwide for nearly a century. No vaccine in the history of vaccines has ever killed (or even given severe side effects) to even a miniscule fraction of the number that the illness it is preventing does. That is as close to fact as it is possible to get People worried about taking vaccines are letting irrational emotions and a ridiculous understanding of risk ( both personal and group risk) get in the way of making a rational decision. That is a perfectly human trait and I understand even if I don't agree but it is in no way the same as being anti brexit or even anti mask ( and I say that as a remainer and someone who thought masks were a good idea in February)

fucking idiots

Also, the vaccine isn't compulsory so what's the big deal? No one's going to make you have it. So don't have it and shut the hell up.

Vaccines have been used on billions of people worldwide for nearly a century.
This vaccine hasn’t.
This is the quickest vaccine to ever get approval.
This is the first mRNA vaccine to ever get approval.

People worried about taking this vaccine (not all vaccines) aren’t letting irrational emotions get in the way. They’re just that... worried.

Anyone who works in public health knows there are a portion of people you are never going to win over so don’t waste energy on them, and a portion of people who are worried and sceptical and need more information. This is the case for all vaccines. You can either engage with that latter group of people or you can use words like “irrational” and “ridiculous”. This does mirror a lot of the other contentious issues that have come up lately.

Also, the vaccine isn't compulsory so what's the big deal? No one's going to make you have it. So don't have it and shut the hell up.
Well we do need enough people to have it.

@ReeseWitherfork

Also, the vaccine isn't compulsory so what's the big deal? No one's going to make you have it. So don't have it and shut the hell up. Well we do need enough people to have it.

Absolutely, but I don't honestly don't believe the anti-vax lot are anything other than a tiny minority given amplification by social media and the media who are trying to turn it into a "thing". My point is fine, you don't have to take it, that's your choice. But keep it to yourself.

sorry, accidental double negative there!

@toolatetooearly I’m not sure what the issue is really, we might be talking about different things.
Those sceptical of the vaccination, needing more information, asking questions... they’re not antivaxxers. They shouldn’t be shut down IMO. Avoiding talking to those people will probably push them into the group who refuse the vaccine. If that group gets too big then we’ve got problems.

[quote ReeseWitherfork]@toolatetooearly I’m not sure what the issue is really, we might be talking about different things.
Those sceptical of the vaccination, needing more information, asking questions... they’re not antivaxxers. They shouldn’t be shut down IMO. Avoiding talking to those people will probably push them into the group who refuse the vaccine. If that group gets too big then we’ve got problems.[/quote]
I'm just not sure what these questions are. What do they need to hear that will convince them to take it?

Personally for me, the two things yet to happen: the phase 3 trials to be peer reviewed and a released ingredients list. I also need to do some research into why they’re so confident there will be no long term consequences and also why it’s only got temporary approval. Trouble is, I’m yet to understand these things, and too many people are now getting mad at questions, calling people “fucking idiots” and therefore making the legitimate information harder to find.
But all moot... I probably won’t be offered it. I’d still like to arm myself with the information if I am.

@ReeseWitherfork

Personally for me, the two things yet to happen: the phase 3 trials to be peer reviewed and a released ingredients list. I also need to do some research into why they’re so confident there will be no long term consequences and also why it’s only got temporary approval. Trouble is, I’m yet to understand these things, and too many people are now getting mad at questions, calling people “fucking idiots” and therefore making the legitimate information harder to find. But all moot... I probably won’t be offered it. I’d still like to arm myself with the information if I am.

Same, I'm fairly near the bottom of the list I imagine. But as I said on another thread, considering the amount of booze, fags and drugs I've put into myself system over the years, I'm not too worried about the vaccine!

considering the amount of booze, fags and drugs I've put into myself system over the years, I'm not too worried about the vaccine!
Ah, see I can’t relate to this. But I do eat a lot of cake. If they put the vaccine in a donut then they’ve won.

Not in recent years so much, before you imagine me at my desk at 10.40am with a bottle of whiskey and pile of pills, just in my slightly-less-responsible past!

I think a lot of people don’t actually know what an ‘anti-vaxxer’ is. Hint: it isn’t someone who decides against having one particular vaccine but supports vaccination in general. Hth

@bumbleymummy

Hint: it isn’t someone who decides against having one particular vaccine but supports vaccination in general.

Maybe a new word should be coined for them, preferably highlighting the positives

You say that, but Wikipedia considers it the same as vaccine hesitancy which it says encompasses refusing certain vaccines though accepting others, so I don’t think it is as clear as you are making out. I agree it would be more useful to keep the two separately defined though.
wiki page on vaccine hesitancy.

@ReeseWitherfork

I might have an answer to one of your questions regarding temporary approval as it’s been bugging me. I’ve been reading and the UK has something called “emergency use authorisation” when it comes to vaccines, which essentially means they can release the vaccination with out complete data from the clinical trials. Those clinical trials are still happening and that’s why it’s only been approved in the UK and nowhere else. A lot of countries are waiting to see what happens when it’s released here, as we’re essentially part of the clinical trial in their eyes.

Whether or not I’ll get the vaccine is a moot point, but I think people have every right to question the vaccine. For someone to have blind faith in something and not even question it’s reliability / validity is really worrying. By questioning things it’s only going to give you more knowledge, there can be no negative from that. The only negative can come from shutting down any discourse about it as that won’t solve anything and will just breed animosity on both sides.

@Bushola Totally agree about your pro and anti vacc comment.

www.newscientist.com/article/2261805-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine/

Just found an article about it incase someone virtually shouts at me.

Hasn't it been rushed because there has been no peer review, stage 3 is still in progress, no patient leaflet info, so far only 2 known Contra.

Any NHS are looking for plasma donations from those who had CV either confirmed or symptoms. Like many of these things I'm not eligible so do my bit by passing on info

www.nhsbt.nhs.uk/covid-19-research/plasma-donors/who-can-donate-plasma/