Anti vaxxers in full force today!

[Shekinah1]

I keep seeing anti vaccine threads. False info about immunity passports and that the vaccine is going to be compulsory.

It is not going to be compulsory.

Health passports are going to be ridiculously hard to implement they can’t even manage track and trace fgs.

Get a grip

So what are your questions

Is this particular vaccine safe? We won’t know will we. Not for a few years.

What are the side effects? Again they may know of some now - and others will become apparent as time goes on.

Those are my main questions but I could think of more.

I think that it would be helpful if there was more publicity given to how it has been possible to get to this stage in such a short period:

• the amount of cooperation between organisations
• the amount of money made available
• the numbers of people who have volunteered for testing
• the willingness to try

It really has been a phenomenal effort

I think what's wrong is that they try to scare the people without real facts. Everyone is obviously concerned but they make their decision by finding out facts and truth about it, including negatives. But those scaremongering posts doesn't have any facts to prove what they are saying is true, and when asked, they disappear.

I found this article interesting- the one making the point there could be long-term side effects is the Public Health expert:

theconversation.com/should-covid-19-vaccines-be-mandatory-two-experts-discuss-150322

Of course people are going to ask questions. -

How long does it last for?
When will it be known is a booster is needed and at what interval?
Is it true that the vaccine only reduces the symptoms if the person still catches cv?
Is it 1, O or more serious side effects as even Pfizer cannot make up their minds?
If there is no evidence to say that it stops you infecting someone else, does this mean masks are to continue indefinitely?

www.pfizer.com/science/coronavirus/vaccine

What are the side effects?

Listed in the pack info leaflet here: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/940566/Information_for_UK_recipients_on_Pfizer_BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine.pdf

Again they may know of some now - and others will become apparent as time goes on

I can't think of any vaccines where the side effects were not apparent within a short time of administration. Did you have a partcular vaccine, with a late-emerging side effect, in mind?

@Bushola

To be fair the pro vaxers are as bad as the anti vaxers.

It’s the pro/anti mask, pro/anti lockdown and Leave/Remain fights all over again both sides of each were as bad as each other in each of those issues.

My objection to that is 'Remainers being as bad as the others'.

I know this is off topic; but let's not conflate 'as bad as' with 'the harsh reality of the oncoming hard Brexit'.

Just saying.

@SexTrainGlue

What are the side effects?

Listed in the pack info leaflet here: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/940566/Information_for_UK_recipients_on_Pfizer_BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine.pdf

Again they may know of some now - and others will become apparent as time goes on

I can't think of any vaccines where the side effects were not apparent within a short time of administration. Did you have a partcular vaccine, with a late-emerging side effect, in mind?

Interested in answer too

What @GoldenOmber said

The “too rushed” brigade have no basis for that I have seen other than not being happy that some arbitrary date in the future hasn’t passed on the calendar yet.

[quote canigooutyet]Of course people are going to ask questions. -

How long does it last for?
When will it be known is a booster is needed and at what interval?
Is it true that the vaccine only reduces the symptoms if the person still catches cv?
Is it 1, O or more serious side effects as even Pfizer cannot make up their minds?
If there is no evidence to say that it stops you infecting someone else, does this mean masks are to continue indefinitely?

www.pfizer.com/science/coronavirus/vaccine[/quote]
But why can’t these questions be asked and answered once the vaccine programme has started?

What are the long term consequences of using mRNA?

Yes it has been used in animal testing since the 1980's, human testing is still relatively new.

I can't think of any vaccines where the side effects were not apparent within a short time of administration. Did you have a partcular vaccine, with a late-emerging side effect, in mind?

I thought it took a while for the narcolepsy side effect of the swine flu vaccine to become apparent?
It wasn’t discovered within the trials, anyway.

@canigooutyet

What are the long term consequences of using mRNA?

Yes it has been used in animal testing since the 1980's, human testing is still relatively new.

What are the long-term consequences of Long Covid?

But why can’t these questions be asked and answered once the vaccine programme has started?

They can. But the issue to me seems to be that anyone who is even asking questions is being labelled an anti vaxxer, when they’re just asking questions.

RNA is already 'used'. It's part of the virus, and so it's part of all vaccines that use a weakened virus. These vaccines only use a bit of the RNA, rather than the whole thing. RNA is not a mysterious new substance we don't understand.

Why would there be any long-term consequences to using it? What could these be, and what mechanism could exist to cause them?

Surely some should be answered during the initial human testing stage.

Like does it stop you infecting other people?

Must admit the not knowing the long term side effects stops me jumping for joy.. as well as not knowing how long immunity lasts for, and the possible side effects if vaccinations are required to be repeated over time.

What are the long-term consequences of Long Covid?

It’s ok to be concerned about Long Covid and long term vaccine consequences. Having questions doesn’t mean people are going to refuse the vaccine. It just means they’re looking for information. Surely it’s better to link to the research that might help, rather than just label them anti vaxxers?

How long does it last for?

We don't know, which is why follow up will last until at least 2023

When will it be known is a booster is needed and at what interval?

That should follow from the continuance of the trials - the enrolled participants are about 6 months ahead of the general population, so there should bee at least at length of time as warning of need to plan a booster programme.

Is it true that the vaccine only reduces the symptoms if the person still catches cv?

It seems that is a definite effect, plus there's a decent amount of evidence that it also prevents transmission. That does not hiowever yet reach the required level of evidence yet for tat aspect to be relied on. But the amelioration of the disease is in itself a worthwhile benefit

Is it 1, O or more serious side effects as even Pfizer cannot make up their minds?

??

If there is no evidence to say that it stops you infecting someone else, does this mean masks are to continue indefinitely

Probably not - if the disease becomes as trivial as a cold, would widespread centrally-imposed restrictions be needed? Doubt it. But I think now that mask-wearing has begun, there will be people who continue (either all the time, or when they have a lurgy they do not want to spray around)

What are the long-term consequences of Long Covid?

Like any illness the long term effect will depend in the individual.

If you can still catch the various, albeit milder, then you are surely still at risk of Long covid?

That should follow from the continuance of the trials - the enrolled participants are about 6 months ahead of the general population, so there should bee at least at length of time as warning of need to plan a booster programme.

According to Pfizer, this didn't start until the end of July 27th - just over 4 months.

Actually that's a good question.
Will the vaccine protect against Long Covid?

I'm leaning towards yes because I suspect that a genuinely mild case (as opposed to an initially symptomless serious case) won't cause the severe inflammation and vascular damage (blood clots, heart damage, etc).

@canigooutyet

Surely some should be answered during the initial human testing stage.

Like does it stop you infecting other people?

Only if you are prepared to do challenge trials - ie vaccinate someone then expose them to the pathogen.

That is highly unethical when the disease has no known reliable effective treatment, and can cause life changing or life limiting effects or even death.

In those cases, longer term observational studies are required

Reducing the severity of the disease is in itself a worthwhile outcome. Turning the disease from serious to trivial among the over 50s and the CEV/CV prevents 99% of deaths (source JVT) and countless hospitalisations

@TheyPavedParadise

I can't think of any vaccines where the side effects were not apparent within a short time of administration. Did you have a partcular vaccine, with a late-emerging side effect, in mind?

I thought it took a while for the narcolepsy side effect of the swine flu vaccine to become apparent?
It wasn’t discovered within the trials, anyway.

It wasn't discovered in the trials because it was so rare. It only affected about 1 in 50,000 people. When it turned up, it turned up fairly soon after the vaccine, but it didn't get spotted until many many people had been vaccinated because of its rarity.

There is always a chance that some similar very rare nasty side-effect could emerge here. (Probably not narcolepsy, though, as that specific one seems to have been caused by the flu virus itself that was being used in the vaccines.) It's very unlikely, less likely because this has gone through full trials (unlike Pandemrix), and because the trials are huge, and because there's been no suggestion of any such issue so far in the testing - so any chance seems really very low. But if something like that did happen, we wouldn't be more likely to spot it by waiting longer with the existing trials. We would only be more likely to spot it by closely monitor possible side-effects in the people who'd had the vaccine, once it starts getting rolled out in large numbers. Which is what's going to happen.

Data demonstrate vaccine was well tolerated across all populations with over 43,000 participants enrolled; no serious safety concerns observed; the only Grade 3 adverse event greater than 2% in frequency was fatigue at 3.8% and headache at 2.0%

There were 10 severe cases of COVID-19 observed in the trial, with nine of the cases occurring in the placebo group and one in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group.

To date, the Data Monitoring Committee for the study has not reported any serious safety concerns related to the vaccine

All from Pfizer own website, so is it zero or 1?

www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine