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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

OP posts:
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Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 22:00

@Nellodee

I love the way that some of the posters who are most concerned about your mental health are also some of the most antagonistic.

Not all - I've posted before about how draining it must be for you, keeping these threads going, and I think a couple of others have posted genuine concern in the past and even on this thread. In contrast, he faux concern is apparent a million miles away and you are not in the least bit paranoid.

Absolutely stands out like the PM in a bikini jumping up & down singing doesn't it?

Put you right off sleep that has, hasn't it? Sad

Comefromaway · 01/12/2020 22:01

Having seem how this shit show has affected my husband (who is now on anti ds’s & has been warned about keeping his mouth shut) and my daughter who has had a complete breakdown & threatened with disciplinary I am naturally concerned for you too noble.

Not because I want to shut you up but because I’ve seen what this can do.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 01/12/2020 22:02

I agree with you, noble and I appreciate your tenacity. Thanks for voicing how so many of us are feeling and not giving up. It matters!

borntobequiet · 01/12/2020 22:02

the kind of person who just can’t see a terrible wrong being committed and stand idly by

In other words, the sort of person we generally hold up as an example to the children we teach.

Nellodee · 01/12/2020 22:04

I did not need that image, Shitfuckoh.

TheSunIsStillShining · 01/12/2020 22:04

Let's imagine that there was a campaign organization behind this. What would you want them to do?
I'm drawing an almost blank though....

  • Paid ad campaign targeting the gov
  • information campaign, but how? to HTs with leaflets? personal visits to schools? how?
OpheliasCrayon · 01/12/2020 22:04

@Nellodee

I love the way that some of the posters who are most concerned about your mental health are also some of the most antagonistic.

Not all - I've posted before about how draining it must be for you, keeping these threads going, and I think a couple of others have posted genuine concern in the past and even on this thread. In contrast, he faux concern is apparent a million miles away and you are not in the least bit paranoid.

MN is totally anonymous, I can't really work out why @nobelgiraffe would be doing this if she was suffering mentally from it.

She can string together a coherent argument, I'm also sure she would be able to work out if her level of posting was such that it was affecting her mental health (and before anyone has a go at me for commenting on someone's mental health I have extremely serious issues myself and how coherent someone is, and how well they can pull a sentence together is part of an assessment)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is an exceptionally stresseful situation for everyone for SO many reasons and it's NOT being reported correctly. No way. MH is a fairly big number of people and so I feel nobel giraffe is wanting to use this to share what she knows about the situation, to make people aware it really is that serious.

Why can't she? Why can't she speak up? Why can't she share ? It's true you know - it isn't safe...she is speaking the truth.

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 22:05

Parents. Through, amongst others, parenting websites......

OpheliasCrayon · 01/12/2020 22:06

Also as someone who lives with extremely severe mental health issues, I don't appreciate the ease with which people level this assumption at people for completely throwaway daft reasons.

Comefromaway · 01/12/2020 22:08

@TheSunIsStillShining

Let's imagine that there was a campaign organization behind this. What would you want them to do? I'm drawing an almost blank though....
  • Paid ad campaign targeting the gov
  • information campaign, but how? to HTs with leaflets? personal visits to schools? how?
I would want them to campaign for a list of things that schools MUST do to be Covid safe rather than woolly guidance, and enforce social distancing in the same way as out of school settings and businesses have to. And a campaign to provide the funding for these measures to be put in place.

At the moment everything is only recommendations. Heads and local authorities can ignore most of it if they wish.

And some safe way of teachers and students to whistle blow without fear of victimisation.

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 22:08

@Nellodee

I did not need that image, Shitfuckoh.
You can thank me later Grin

It was a way of saying it stands out and not in a nice way. I admit it entertained me once I was reading it back though, purely because if it's going to be freaking me out then it may as well be an image others didn't need too Hmm Grin

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 22:08

|Sorry, missed the quote. It seems to me, that if you were campaigning to make schools safer, you would contact parents. Through parenting websites.....like MN, in fact.

TheSunIsStillShining · 01/12/2020 22:09

@noblegiraffe
I still admire how you don't lose your shit :)

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 22:10

@OpheliasCrayon I think you may have misread @Nellodee post.

OpheliasCrayon · 01/12/2020 22:12

[quote Shitfuckoh]**@OpheliasCrayon* I think you may have misread @Nellodee* post.[/quote]
No I don't think I have.

Regardless of what nellodee is saying, @noblegiraffe appears to be a coherent adult capable of stringing together reasoned arguments

I don't see why she needs anyone commenting on her mental health, negative or positive if she wishes to post.

TheSunIsStillShining · 01/12/2020 22:12

But what does campaigning actually mean? Posting? putting up paid/unpaid articles?

How do you campaign for gov to give more funding? I mean what actual steps would you take?

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 22:14

@OpheliasCrayon
No, you're right - she doesn't need anyone commenting on her mental health at all.

InTheLongGrass · 01/12/2020 22:14

And safer schools would mean more kids in school, because there would be less isolation of both staff and students. Win win. im not fed up with my oldest having his 5th week of home schooling since September, oh no

FWIW, I've just started in a school as a non pupil contact support role. We had 2 school years, plus associated staff, mass tested as part of a study. One singular asymptomatic case found.

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 22:15

First, you inform people.

Then they write to their local MP, the DfE, Ofsted ... and get their friends to do so too.

They suggest fundraising, making it really clear that yes, this year's Christmas Fayre is not only virtual, it is also buying hand sanitiser and window latches - and write to the local press to explain why.

Essentially, you have to swing public opinion, which this government runs scared of.

TheSunIsStillShining · 01/12/2020 22:16

@cantkeepawayforever
Thanks!

timeforanewstart · 01/12/2020 22:17

Im on the fence with masks ? Are they making a huge difference in schools in the countries that wear them ? Maybe they are ?
I wouldn't have an issue with my ds wearing a mask but do think it isn't ideal either and can make people more complacent at times. Lots of fiddling with masks and touching faces etc
Testing of contacts when a case makes sense but what do you propose if negative they can come in ? Or test everyday or 3 times in incubation period , how would you propose the testing is used ?
If you have lots of windows open as most radiators are under window I am not too sure cranking heating up makes that much difference to temp,
But please don't also believe that all other workplaces are covid safe ? Even if they claim to be, speaking from experience of being a temp in couple places , places are trying but it is impossible to follow it all at all times , due to various reasons. I think the term covid safe or covid secure is misleading , taking covid measures would be a more realistic term

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 01/12/2020 22:18

I want more dangerous schools with knives and that Indiana Jones ball thing that rolls down corridors.

Comefromaway · 01/12/2020 22:19

I’m sure some workplaces are not safe. But staff working there can whistleblow to the HSE if they feel the rules are not being followed. Schools don’t even have to attempt to follow the rules.

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 22:20

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

I want more dangerous schools with knives and that Indiana Jones ball thing that rolls down corridors.
Ah, you're just talking about the average school there. That's not dangerous. Giving the children antibac & a mask though, the most dangerous thing ever according to some
cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 22:20

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

I want more dangerous schools with knives and that Indiana Jones ball thing that rolls down corridors.
Knives - entirely possible. Indiana Jones may take a little longer.....