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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

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OpheliasCrayon · 01/12/2020 21:47

@ChloeDecker

They started on GPs the other day. It's all either teacher bashing or GP bashing. Or I remember nurse bashing for dancing earlier on the pandemic.

I remember that too. It was awful. Some nasty police threads too. I spoke out against that on those threads and the dancing TikTok one in support.

After a day working in an SEN school, where we are at risk, a LOT... Where we work our arsed off in often challenging situations, I would defy anyone to hold us to account for anything that we do to relax

I've taught a little but not much in mainstream and it's the same but with MORE children so more risk I guess...I would welcome anyone to do anything that made them feel good at this point, for self care.

Our management are actively encouraging self care and providing resources ..

People are very ready to bash us... but they don't stop to think about what OUR reality looks like - just why our reality doesn't fit THEIR narrative.

MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:47

Telling me that posting my threads is a pointless waste of time because there's nothing that can be done about things (as you have done) is just another version of 'SHUT THE HELL UP, NOBLE'.

Omg I'm actually chuckling to myself over this. Noble you are so defensive and so ready for a fight that you can't even see when someone supports you. I didn't say your thread was a pointless waste of time, I said limiting the campaign to Mumsnet can only achieve so much. The two are very different statements. And therefore I have not told you to shut up, I've pointed out a fact - for any of us posting online there will be a certain degree of abuse thrown at us and therefore it is not unreasonable for people to worry about this on your behalf if they support you.

This is why so many people are put off by these threads, there isn't much in the way of civil discussion to be had now it's descended into a warzone, anyone who dares stick their head above the parapet is piled on for often daft reasons that aren't really an issue.

glitterelf · 01/12/2020 21:48

Well said! Safer schools and parental choice on risk factors for their own families.
I feel for all teaching staff being put a risk daily with no funding to implement proper safety measures. The ever changing policies, having to deal with track and trace at weekends and holidays.

I feel for children like mine who don't feel safe too and the strain their mental health and well-being going to school in this challenging times is having, it's not normal and it's not the best thing for all children.

cantkeepawayforever · 01/12/2020 21:48

@MrsMiaWallis

Noone wants to shut you up noble, don't be paranoid.

You carry on posting if you want. It must be bloody exhausting though.

So is all campaigning, though. It's the nature of the beast.
noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:49

Noone wants to shut you up noble, don't be paranoid.

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OpheliasCrayon · 01/12/2020 21:49

[quote Shitfuckoh]@OpheliasCrayon

I know you want no thanks, so I won't.
What I will say is, I hope over the Christmas break you & all teaching staff manage to destress as much as possible, as it's absolutely needed & very much deserved, regardless of some of the batshitness you may read.
(my eldest attends a special school so your post struck a cord a lot more than it might have done)[/quote]
Cheers.... At this point I'm just hoping we are still in by Christmas at this point.
It's an absolutely pleasure to be in this said and every day we remain with some of us at least open I'm thankful. The kids need to be in, and I need us to be in for them.

WouldstrokeTomHardy · 01/12/2020 21:49

Sounds good to me

MrsMiaWallis · 01/12/2020 21:50

So is all campaigning, though. It's the nature of the beast

This isn't a campaign. It's a thread on mumsnet.

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 21:51

@CallmeAngelina
Ah! I was following that thread but missed the last page so didn't see that post.
I've just read it & had to laugh, espcially at this bit -
''This is probably because education settings are rigorously enforcing all the mitigations – handwashing, mask wearing, bubbles, isolation of staff and pupils with symptoms etc.”

Whilst educational settings are trying to enforce it, the constant changing of the rules in regards to bubbles & who needs to isolate when makes this a little difficult. They've gone from sending home bubbles to sending home a couple of students. Staff have no time to enforce handwashing at all. Staff don't need to isolate, even if they've been in a double lesson with a student that tests positive.

I know I'm ranting at the wrong person here, as you know all of this, I'm just baffled as to whether this ''DfE person'' has actually ever been in side a school that wasn't staged for them.

IloveJKRowling · 01/12/2020 21:51

Yes absolutely agree with you noble as do Indie Sage in their recent report. They also suggest investment to allow smaller class sizes.

It is a disgrace our teachers are being expected to work in unsafe environments - unique among all other workers in the UK. Told specifically NOT to wear the simple, low-cost protection of masks. When in an enclosed environment with 30 others for hours (i.e. perfect environment for covid spread)

It is a disgrace the government won't fund schools properly - THEY are the ones causing school closures and children to miss critical education. The lack of funding and lack of safety measures in this country which is pretty much unique among developed countries* is causing massive covid spread.

*Masks in classrooms from age 6 in France, Spain, pretty much everywhere with levels of infection comparable to us I think and many with much lower levels of community spread too (e.g. S Korea where their TOTAL death toll since the pandemic began is lower than our DAILY death toll today).

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:51

Noble you are so defensive and so ready for a fight that you can't even see when someone supports you. I didn't say your thread was a pointless waste of time, I said limiting the campaign to Mumsnet can only achieve so much.

Very supportive. Thanks.

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MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:53

@noblegiraffe

Noble you are so defensive and so ready for a fight that you can't even see when someone supports you. I didn't say your thread was a pointless waste of time, I said limiting the campaign to Mumsnet can only achieve so much.

Very supportive. Thanks.

Sometimes the things we need to hear aren't the things we like I'm afraid.
Ilikesweetpeas · 01/12/2020 21:54

My DC secondary school is an absolute car crash... I wish they would switch to online learning for the 2 weeks before Christmas so that we could know they won't be self isolating (YET AGAIN) at Christmas. Feel sorry for the pupils and staff

borntobequiet · 01/12/2020 21:55

Support from me.

There’s a large and apparently underused walk in test place near me. They could easily march the local secondary kids down in (say) tutor groups. They’d have to administer their own tests but what a learning experience! Like a Covid field trip. And I’m serious. I’d definitely rather supervise that than cover a Y9 Design Tech lesson with pin files, as I was once asked to do.
Not as sophisticated as the clever testing idea outlined upthread, though. That sounds wonderful.

Comefromaway · 01/12/2020 21:55

“ This is probably because education settings are rigorously enforcing all the mitigations – handwashing, mask wearing, bubbles, isolation of staff and pupils with symptoms etc.””

Ha bloody ha. What mitigations? Bubbles, that’s a joke.hand washing, yeah right.

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 21:56

Sometimes the things we need to hear aren't the things we like I'm afraid.

Have you finished discussing me and want to discuss making schools safer? Rest assured I am not at all bothered by your opinion.

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SheepandCow · 01/12/2020 21:56

You're absolutely right @noblegiraffe

The Great irony is that it's the failure to follow WHO recommended guidelines (for making schools Covid safer) that prevents schools from being (fully) open.

The ongoing disruptions - children sent home and staff off sick (sometimes long-term) - makes keeping schools open an impossibility.

And, you know what. The best way to keep schools open is containment.

SheepandCow · 01/12/2020 21:56

*great

IloveJKRowling · 01/12/2020 21:57

I don't want to speak for her but it seems to me noble is the kind of person who just can't see a terrible wrong being committed and stand idly by.

That's why I keep on too. And incidentally is exactly the kind of person I hope teaches my children.

Not someone who says 'keep your head down and put up with terrible, awful things - it's the best you can hope for in life'

MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:57

[quote ChloeDecker]Here you go

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4082589-Is-a-change-beginning-to-happen-regarding-schools?msgid=102076564#102076564[/quote]
Thanks Chloe that's really helpful Smile

SheepandCow · 01/12/2020 21:58

I feel exactly the same @IloveJKRowling
She's just the kind of teacher I'd want teaching my children.

MrsMigginsMate · 01/12/2020 21:58

I mean sure noble, you crack on. But it is clear that you are bothered by lots of people including me for some reason. shrug.

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 21:58

@IloveJKRowling

I don't want to speak for her but it seems to me noble is the kind of person who just can't see a terrible wrong being committed and stand idly by.

That's why I keep on too. And incidentally is exactly the kind of person I hope teaches my children.

Not someone who says 'keep your head down and put up with terrible, awful things - it's the best you can hope for in life'

The kind I hope teaches mine too.
Nellodee · 01/12/2020 21:59

I love the way that some of the posters who are most concerned about your mental health are also some of the most antagonistic.

Not all - I've posted before about how draining it must be for you, keeping these threads going, and I think a couple of others have posted genuine concern in the past and even on this thread. In contrast, he faux concern is apparent a million miles away and you are not in the least bit paranoid.

Shitfuckoh · 01/12/2020 21:59

@MrsMigginsMate

I mean sure noble, you crack on. But it is clear that you are bothered by lots of people including me for some reason. shrug.
But....

Safer schools?

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