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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

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ChloeDecker · 04/12/2020 12:56

@BungleandGeorge

Isn’t that a standard school day more or less in Cyprus? Early start, early finish?
Time of day yes but not the lunch part. Previously, they could have lunch on site before going home.
ChloeDecker · 04/12/2020 12:57

Although you say early start but they start later than I do at my Secondary school here! When people talk about how much more time our children spend in schools than in a lot of other countries, this is an example.

christinarossetti19 · 04/12/2020 13:10

Own desks, masks on, regular testing not usual though. Effective covid mitigation measures though..

Comefromaway · 04/12/2020 13:30

Well, I thought I was impressed with ds's college and all the measures etc put in place (especially compared to the woeful handling by dd and dh's school) but now they have surpassed themselves.

They have secured mass rapid result lateral flow testing via our local authority for all staff and students next week between 7th-11th December.

noblegiraffe · 04/12/2020 13:44

Colleges are allowed different measures to secondary schools, blended learning, for example. Our local sixth form college has Y12 in one week, Y13 the next while secondary sixth forms have to be all in even though it's the same age group.

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Comefromaway · 04/12/2020 13:59

Schools in this area don't have 6th forms noble (my daughter goes to one in a different area) , however it is private )although many students receive government funding to go there as its specialist) so they have the choice to be more flexible/sensible.

It is ridiculous that state 6th form colleges don;t have to follow the same rules as schools with an attached 6th form.

AprilLady · 04/12/2020 14:32

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Coming to this late, but also just wanted to add my strong agreement with the OP.

Above link is interesting, and suggests the measures which would be most effective and implementable without huge expense or difficulty are:

  • sufficient ventilation, even if it makes classrooms cold (let the kids come dressed in mufti to keeep warm if needed)
  • limit time in one classroom before airing thoroughly
  • everyone to wear masks

The last one is so easily done, and I really don’t understand why it hasn’t been. At my DCs’ school, individual teachers can ask all pupils to wear masks, but it isn’t otherwise compulsory.

WhyNotMe40 · 04/12/2020 16:11

The only reason it hasn't been done is because it would be a tacit admission that they know schools are NOT safe.
And anyway - kids aren't at risk as we keep being told.
Teachers are an acceptable collateral damage

mrshoho · 04/12/2020 17:15

Let's face it, the majority of our government along with their advisors do not rely on state education for their own children. It is clearer now more than ever that sub standard education is perfectly acceptable for the masses. Even before covid the number of children leaving school without basic qualifications had risen sharply. One factor being austerity and the shameful cuts in funding for schools over the last years. The silence from the government with regard to so many teachers now off either through illness or isolation is deafening. The way schools opening has been handled shows how little they are valued by our government. It makes me wonder what is the point of ofsted and all these assessments and testing of our children. I know I'm going off topic but it is so demoralising and unjust.

TheRubyRedshoes · 04/12/2020 17:18

Sorry if it's been mentioned there is a new sage article today, calling for school to close early and let parents who can take their dc out.

Piggywaspushed · 04/12/2020 17:32

Sage or Independent Sage? Almost certainly the latter. The government pays them no heed.

CallmeAngelina · 04/12/2020 17:54

According to the Mail (sorry), it's Sage.

Piggywaspushed · 04/12/2020 17:57

Found it. Spi-B. They ignore them too.

saraclara · 04/12/2020 18:08

So...

My daughter had to isolate for two weeks and her school had to close because it was so widespread. She's been back for a week, and today discovered that one of her pupils has classic symptoms and assuming a positive test, she'll have to isolate for another two weeks, as will the children and adults in the department bubble.

She has several pre-Christmas family things that she was looking forward to (outside and carefully planned for safety) not to mention she wanted to do the Christmas shopping that she was unable to do due to her last isolation. Even if she doesn't get it or spread it herself, it's a pain in the neck. I'm sure the parents of the kids in the bubble will feel the same.

lonelyplanet · 04/12/2020 18:08

@Piggywaspushed

Found it. Spi-B. They ignore them too.
Could you link to it please.
IloveJKRowling · 04/12/2020 18:11

Let's face it, the majority of our government along with their advisors do not rely on state education for their own children. It is clearer now more than ever that sub standard education is perfectly acceptable for the masses. Even before covid the number of children leaving school without basic qualifications had risen sharply. One factor being austerity and the shameful cuts in funding for schools over the last years. The silence from the government with regard to so many teachers now off either through illness or isolation is deafening. The way schools opening has been handled shows how little they are valued by our government.

Yes, this.

Labour are as bad as the Tories too IMO - what have they done to help teachers and schools? Nothing.

Whilst I get the idea that MP salaries should be high enough so that anyone can enter, there's a problem when they're so high they take most people doing the job out of the day to day concerns of the masses - such as the quality of state education.

Piggywaspushed · 04/12/2020 18:19

It's in The Fail lonely...

noblegiraffe · 04/12/2020 19:19

Labour are as bad as the Tories too IMO - what have they done to help teachers and schools? Nothing.

No, they've been worse. Keir Starmer said he expected schools to open 'no ifs, no buts' back in the summer, implying that the unions were trouble-making and that health and safety was nothing worthy of consideration.

Keir with an eye on how to position himself politically over everything else.

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BungleandGeorge · 04/12/2020 19:47

The article is from one of the advisors from SAGE, rather than SAGE itself.
Surely some MPs must be thinking that allowing inter generational mixing at Christmas is going to be an absolute disaster.

mrshoho · 04/12/2020 19:58

Absolutely, our Labour leader and shadow cabinet have been abysmal. All this talk of how vital schools remaining face to face and fully open for the mental health and wellbeing of our children. Why haven't they been insisting on CAMHS and other agencies returning to inperson support? My daughter had nothing from them from March to October, not even a phone call. They contacted us in half term apologising for the lack of support and she has now had two video calls. They can't possibly risk meeting face to face due to covid! Children are now being assessed and diagnosed over video link! Why aren't all these MPs so concerned about these services being open as usual? It is much easier for them to pass the buck to schools.

TheRubyRedshoes · 04/12/2020 20:05

Sorry yes it was in the fail...

The fail. Has the guardian been behind this at all? I think don't like the guardian and Don't read it.

TheRubyRedshoes · 04/12/2020 20:06

Mr soho other things have started up face to face.

noblegiraffe · 04/12/2020 20:12

I just went to the Guardian Education section. One story about how tough uni has been for students and how worried they are about taking covid back to their parents. One about how tough the pandemic has been for university lecturers. One about the govt's non-announcement about exams next year. None about the chaos in schools or how difficult things have been for teachers.

Useless.

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noblegiraffe · 04/12/2020 20:21

Blaenau Gwent shutting all schools a week early for Christmas and going online: www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-council-shut-schools-week-19403057

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herecomesthsun · 04/12/2020 20:24

@mrshoho

We are having assessment and diagnosis from CAMHS, intermittently over the internet. I am ok with this as I can't see what else they can do currently.

it is dragging out, so we might get to a point where the HCPs have had the vaccine and DC gets seen in person, which would be good.