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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 21:16

Can you see to it that the DfE change their guidance on masks then please Clav?

OP posts:
monkeytennis97 · 03/12/2020 21:24

Yes please! @Clavinova another two teachers here who want masks in classrooms in secondaries.

ChloeDecker · 03/12/2020 21:25

So what's yours?

DH works in education.

Classic Clav Grin

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 21:27

Can you see to it that the DfE change their guidance on masks then please Clav?

I don't have that much influence - I'm not Carrie Symonds. Grin

borntobequiet · 03/12/2020 21:40

@Clavinova

Can you see to it that the DfE change their guidance on masks then please Clav?

I don't have that much influence - I'm not Carrie Symonds. Grin

So no help to us on here then. Why not take a break from engaging with bolshy, mask-dodging teachers? There’s a Brexit related thread somewhere on here where your thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated.
christinarossetti19 · 03/12/2020 21:43

Oh don't go Clav.

I'm also enjoying you watching you tie yourself in knots trying to prove noblegiraffe wrong when everything you post just backs up her argument that schools aren't safe and they could and should be much safer.

Returnofthemaccys · 03/12/2020 21:46

Concerned parent here and 100% agree. They could and should be a hell of a lot safer. And it's inexcusable not to close them early, and to let people mix a few days after they've just been in mass gatherings.

LolaSmiles · 03/12/2020 21:50

It's always 'in education' and no clarity.

Clavi, does your husband work in schools as a qualified teacher? Has he ever worked in schools as a qualified teacher for a meaningful period (because we all know that there's a training organisation that does some good stuff but participants magically find themselves in government and think tank roles with no more than 2 years as a teacher)?

ChloeDecker · 03/12/2020 21:52

I swear Clav’s DH was someone high up in a free school or something. And he demanded staff stayed in school until a certain time. This was ages ago mind and could well be wrong.

cantkeepawayforever · 03/12/2020 21:53

@Clavinova

cantkeepawayforever

Sorry - missed one of your posts - four confirmed cases this term? What
roles. Teachers? Support staff? Office staff? Lunchtime staff? Maintenance?

3 classroom staff (teachers or TAs), all in contact with 30+ children for 6 hours each day with no SD possible due to numbers.

1 member of office staff, infection through family (their child, in a different school, brought it home with them and member of staff later developed symptoms).

cantkeepawayforever · 03/12/2020 21:54

[And no, the classroom staff were separate, and not in close contact with each other outwith the classroom]

cantkeepawayforever · 03/12/2020 21:55

We have it EXTREMELY lightly compared with other local schools - ex Tier 1 area, most secondaries have at least 1 year group fully out, several are down to their final year group left in, very significant numbers of staff and student infection.

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 21:58

So no help to us on here then

Actually, I might be of some help - just found the How do teachers feel about wearing masks to teach? thread from the end of August;

One poster;
"As a member of staff I am actually allowed to wear a mask if I choose. It's in our risk assessment for school staff."

Check your risk assessments.

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 22:03

cantkeepawayforever

I'm afraid that your posts on How do teachers feel about wearing masks to teach? are somewhat contradictory to what you have posted here - you preferred a visor/distance over wearing a mask.

noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 22:05

Clav that only helps with your aim to get teachers in masks which I'm pretty sure you're only in favour of because you think it will annoy us.

In terms of disease transmission protection, clearly the WHO guidelines regarding masks in age 12+ children should also be followed. Schools need government backing on this given the parents who are lawyering up to stop it.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 22:07

Clav lots of opinions have changed as the situation has developed.

I wouldn't have been promoting mass testing back in September, now I'm all for it having seen the reality of the effects of the lack of testing and the stupidity of the close contacts process.

We know a lot more now than we did then. Well, teachers do. Others are a bit slower on the uptake.

OP posts:
WhyNotMe40 · 03/12/2020 22:08

@Clavinova

So no help to us on here then

Actually, I might be of some help - just found the How do teachers feel about wearing masks to teach? thread from the end of August;

One poster;
"As a member of staff I am actually allowed to wear a mask if I choose. It's in our risk assessment for school staff."

Check your risk assessments.

Yeah did that. It quotes DfE. As do most schools. It is a very very rare school that would dare to go against DfE guidance
Clavinova · 03/12/2020 22:14

Clav that only helps with your aim to get teachers in masks which I'm pretty sure you're only in favour of because you think it will annoy us.

You shouldn't be annoyed.

borntobequiet · 03/12/2020 22:15

My colleague, recently recovered (as far as possible) from a near-fatal heart attack, had to go to great lengths to get a personal risk assessment with HR (this was in September). He was grudgingly given permission to wear a mask, and a visor if he had to go out of his “teaching box”, for example to get something from the cupboard. He was not allowed to ask his (non socially distanced, adult) learners to wear masks. He was basically told that if he didn’t like it, he could find another job. This is an excellent teacher whose feedback is wholly positive, and whose results are consistently very good. Over lockdown he went above and beyond to produce a suite of superb online resources, and worked extremely hard to support and encourage learners.
Risk assessments are variable things, not always helpful, and school and college leaders frequently don’t give a jot for the health and welfare of their staff.

saraclara · 03/12/2020 22:24

@Clavinova where do you get the idea that teachers don't want to wear masks? All the ones I know do want to wear them. And if they teach older children they want them to wear them too.

I've not seen anything on any of the recent covid and schools threads from anyone (outside early years settings) saying they don't want to wear them

HipTightOnions · 03/12/2020 22:33

@Clavinova

So no help to us on here then

Actually, I might be of some help - just found the How do teachers feel about wearing masks to teach? thread from the end of August;

One poster;
"As a member of staff I am actually allowed to wear a mask if I choose. It's in our risk assessment for school staff."

Check your risk assessments.

What makes you think we haven’t?

Our RA reiterates the gov guidance hence NO MASKS in classrooms.

saraclara · 03/12/2020 22:38

@Clavinova

So no help to us on here then

Actually, I might be of some help - just found the How do teachers feel about wearing masks to teach? thread from the end of August;

One poster;
"As a member of staff I am actually allowed to wear a mask if I choose. It's in our risk assessment for school staff."

Check your risk assessments.

Your last line is quite astonishing. Do you also teach your grandmother to suck eggs in your spare time?

Seriously, your compete disdain for teachers, assuming that they know nothing, is quite ridiculous.

Walkaround · 03/12/2020 22:44

It does show Clavinova’s general disdain for school staff that she thinks they are not aware of their own schools’ risk assessments.

BungleandGeorge · 03/12/2020 22:46

@borntobequiet

Yes see most recent comment all need to be in masks. I was replying to those saying just children should be in masks. Evidence seems to say teachers are more likely to infect children because of aerosol production and people who are asymptomatic spread less because of lower viral load and lack of spread from coughing etc (which produces aerosols). It doesn’t really matter though to reduce risk everyone should wear them. It’s also better to lead by example and wear your mask properly. Some teachers have chosen not to wear them at our school. They are more difficult to teach in and some people are not that worried about covid. It depends on personal circumstances, some very worried, some not

mrshoho · 03/12/2020 22:46

And her ignorance of the situation right now in state schools.