noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

saraclara
You're very interested in noblegiraffe's background, Clavinova.

I used to debate on grammar schools with her - on the education boards - some years ago now.

So what's yours?

DH works in education.

I have to say I'm really bored now about arguing the toss with someone who had no idea what it is like in your average city comprehensive.
Come stand in the stairwell at year 11 lesson changeovers and then sit in the front row with my year 8s (wedged shoulder to shoulder and barely enough space at the front for me to walk and write on the board) - and then argue the toss.

None during lockdown opening from 1st June with proper SD and bubbling procedures, despite nearly 50% of the school (allowed years + vulnerable / keyworkers) being in full time for all that half term.

It can be done then.

Yes - with 15 children + 2 dedicated staff per bubble, no movement of staff or children between bubbles, strict toilet rotas (absolutely impossible with full classes of 31-33), all lunches eaten outside, full clean of the classrooms twice a day by extra cleaning staff in full PPE.

Not with the current DfE guidance.

@Clavinova - can be done with 50% of the school out and no staff absences requiring staff to cross bubbles and thus burst them all. Can be done with a lot more money.

cantkeepawayforever
Careful there, you're starting to give the impression that those on the ground in schools know more about what's going on than those who aren't

the problem was, as you well know, the DfE realised they could not possibly reopen schools full time to everyone with those arrangements WITHOUT doubling the effective size of every school OR allowing students into school only half time.

Hence the 'bung them all in and pretend it's safe' approach - and suppress all data that indicates it isn't.

@Walkaround

The DfE does not believe face coverings are necessary in classrooms even where social distancing is not possible!

The DfE can’t do otherwise because its addiction to magical thinking has convinced it that schools are safe regardless of common sense and actual evidence to the contrary.

The DfE can’t do otherwise because its addiction to magical thinking has convinced it that schools are safe regardless of common sense and actual evidence to the contrary

The success of the Brexit bus has convinced the government that repeating lies often enough makes the majority of people believe them....

@LolaSmiles

saraclara IIRC their husband is big and important, very well connected to education in some way and shares enough of his high level knowledge with Clavi that she alludes to in threads despite much of her claims being rather different to the reality of those working in schools. Other than that her favoured topics are why teachers are wrong, arguing about the reality of teaching and telling teachers that they don't understand their jobs or their contracts. At least 75% of the time threads need to be hijacked by Clavi copying and pasting lengthy extracts from websites to try and argue the opposite of whatever those working in schools say.

Mrs Williamson?

cantkeepawayforever

How many confirmed positive cases amongst staff in total September - November?

Which is why noble's and other threads are so important, as one of the very few mechanisms by which teachers are able to share their true experiences and debunk the lies.

@WouldBeGood

No. Schools are fine. Keep them open.

They can’t be that deadly as @noblegiraffe is still going strong months in.

Thanks teachers I really appreciate what you do

Well you didn't read the op did you?

It specifically states about how to keep schools open and make sure more pupils are accessing education.

How to make them safer

Well done noble people need to hear it. Hopefully one day they'll actually listen to what's being said and not what they want to hear.

LolaSmiles

I have avoided 75% of the teacher threads recently I would say.

As I said, 4. So far. All symptomatic, so given the usual 1 symptomatic: 9 general ratio, it's very likely that there have been more. Without proper testing in schools, how will we know?

@cantkeepawayforever

Which is why noble's and other threads are so important, as one of the very few mechanisms by which teachers are able to share their true experiences and debunk the lies.

I can't believe that the media have been so totally and utterly complicit in the lies.

Those bloody photos. They've had enough complaints that they definitely know, but they still do it.

I feel like it should be a Panorama or something.

Recently being the main word.

Still most of your contributions to the ones you post on involve lengthy copying and pasting and telling everyone who works in schools that they don't know anything about their job. It's astounding that someone apparently connected to education can be quite so clueless and ideologically driven to the point of denying the reality of those actually teaching day to day.

Did we ever establish if your husband has been a qualified teacher with reasonable experience teaching? Just it's always that he works 'in education'.

@cantkeepawayforever absolutely, all in masks to stop the chain of transmission. Sorry didn’t make that clear

@Clavinova

cantkeepawayforever

How many confirmed positive cases amongst staff in total September - November?

I know you're not asking me, but in the school I know best, one symptomatic member of staff tested positive, so all the staff in her department got tested. All but one of the eight were positive, though asymptomatic. Several (teenage) kids had been off sick in that department a few days before, though no parents had reported them being tested.

cantkeepawayforever

Sorry - missed one of your posts - four confirmed cases this term? What
roles. Teachers? Support staff? Office staff? Lunchtime staff? Maintenance?

Clav is now badgering cant instead of admitting that the DfE guidance on masks should be ignored if you are concerned for your personal safety.

@BungleandGeorge

Surely teachers need to wear masks so they don’t infect pupils who then go to another teacher’s class and may well pass it on to that teacher and so on. I don’t quite understand the argument. The evidence shows social distancing isn’t enough in poorly ventilated spaces

One teacher, thirty pupils. Who is more likely to be infected by whom, given that older people are more susceptible than young, and younger people are more likely to be asymptomatic?

Pupils and teachers should all wear masks, both in and out of the classroom, and social distance wherever possible (chance would be a fine thing).

Our own Government ministers are temperamentally incapable of keeping far enough away from each other to avoid getting coronavirus or having to isolate, yet they think teachers should be capable of avoiding being anywhere near any other adults all day, despite there being a lot of other adults around; cosying up to large numbers of children all day; not wearing masks at the times they are in the most confined spaces with the most people; and not getting ill or spreading coronavirus.

Isn't it simply staggering that we are STILL having to argue these points out, even now?
That there are STILL posters intent on telling us black is white, when we're on the ground and seeing the black all around?

I am so very tired of it all.

I know you're not asking me, but in the school I know best, one symptomatic member of staff tested positive, so all the staff in her department got tested. All but one of the eight were positive, though asymptomatic.

All the more reason for teachers to wear masks at that school.