noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

@Clavinova

ChloeDecker Where has noble said that she doesn’t wear a mask where she can or that she wouldn’t?

She indicated that she wouldn't wear at mask at school unless the pupils in her class wore masks as well - that seems odd to me when she has started so many posts on school safety - I would have thought she would be the first person to wear a mask;

"I think if we’re going the mask route, the 30 other people in the room I spend the most time with should be wearing one too."

That’s not what she means and you know it. The point being made that yes, it’s useful for teachers to wear masks but it’s not as effective if the pupils don’t either. Nowhere does noble say she won’t wear a mask unless pupils do. I did have some respect for you as a poster over the last couple of years even if I didn’t agree but this a low even for you.

[quote Clavinova]Giving teachers permission to wear a mask is pretty pointless unless pupils also wear them, as on balance masks protect others more than the mask wearer.

Unison didn't think it was pointless in August;

"Responding to a joint statement by UK chief medical officers about school reopening, UNISON head of education Jon Richards said"

“This acknowledgement of the transmission risk between staff in schools underlines why it’s vital they should be able to wear face coverings."

www.unison.org.uk/news/2020/08/school-staff-must-allowed-wear-masks-safe-reopening-says-unison/[/quote]
I think it's also important to acknowledge here that Unison is for support staff, not teachers, so more likely to be in rooms with other adults, than consistently in rooms with many children/teenagers and rarely with other adults.

I think it's also important to acknowledge here that Unison is for support staff, not teachers, so more likely to be in rooms with other adults

I think TAs and teachers should wear masks around each other.

@Clavinova

I think it's also important to acknowledge here that Unison is for support staff, not teachers, so more likely to be in rooms with other adults

I think TAs and teachers should wear masks around each other.

ie they should wear masks in the classroom.

@Clavinova

noble giraffe I'm sure that was this year!

Ok - I came to that conclusion several years ago but apparently I was wrong.

I am not and never have been a union rep or worked for a union in any capacity. Just to be clear because people keep throwing at me.

I always have been merely a bog-standard chalk-face part-time maths teacher with no TLRs.

@Walkaround

The DfE does not believe face coverings are necessary in classrooms even where social distancing is not possible!

Shocking, isn't it? As a science teacher I am used to constantly risk assessing my pupil's safety, and personally I think it would be negligent if I did not wear a mask when near a student or speaking face to face at less than 2m. However I go against school rules and DfE guidance if I do put on a mask for that Is it any surprise that I am finding my working life currently hugely stressful and exhausting in any manner of myriad ways

@Clavinova

I think it's also important to acknowledge here that Unison is for support staff, not teachers, so more likely to be in rooms with other adults

I think TAs and teachers should wear masks around each other.

Shame they are not allowed to when in a classroom together then, isn't it?

@Walkaround

The DfE does not believe face coverings are necessary in classrooms even where social distancing is not possible!

I think that's because in classrooms they're thinking of the kids who are always packed together. Obviously teachers should be maintaining 2m distance where possible so no masks needed there either

@noblegiraffe

Bungle it's odd isn't it, going from 'WHO says they should be wearing masks' to 'discretion in particular circumstances' to 'use in classrooms should be avoided'.

Yes I think it is contradictory as the tone changes as you go down. As part of a risk assessment is not compatible with ‘should be avoided’. One of the examples of where masks can be worn is

where on top of hygiene measures and the system of controls recommended in the full opening guidance to schools and FE colleges and providers, permitting the use of face coverings for staff, pupils or other visitors would provide additional confidence to parents to support a full return of children to school or college

Does that mean all parents or some parents? Peoples’ views are totally divided and that goes for staff too as some do not want to teach in masks

@Clavinova

I think it's also important to acknowledge here that Unison is for support staff, not teachers, so more likely to be in rooms with other adults

I think TAs and teachers should wear masks around each other.

Why do you think teenagers shouldn't, then? They are just as likely to pass on the virus.

Agree

I work in schools

@BungleandGeorge

It’s true it does need to be paused if the phone isn’t on your person, but the notifications shouldn’t be over ridden. So some schools are risk assessing otherwise, that’s terrible

Some schools are being told by the DfE helpline that it is perfectly acceptable to ignore a notification if the school risk assessment means that the teacher in question wasn't a close contact.

I think TAs and teachers should wear masks around each other.

My TA and I are only together in the classroom.

We do not have access to any communal rooms within the school for e.g. eating lunch, and there is nowhere else we would meet.

So should I be wearing a mask in the classroom because i am 'around my TA' there?

ChloeDecker
Nowhere does noble say she won’t wear a mask unless pupils do.

She implied it - confirmed by her later post which stated that she wasn't concerned for her own safety.

You're very interested in noblegiraffe's background, Clavinova. So what's yours? I only ever see you on threads about teachers, and always, always posting negatively about them with great determination and persistence. What is it that compels you to do that?

Surely teachers need to wear masks so they don’t infect pupils who then go to another teacher’s class and may well pass it on to that teacher and so on. I don’t quite understand the argument. The evidence shows social distancing isn’t enough in poorly ventilated spaces

Clav, as I am around my TA in the classroom (as in we both share the same air and cannot socially distance from well over 30 children for 6 hours a day, as well as sometimes unavoidably being physically close together when working with specific children or dealing with specific incidents), in your opinion should the DfE advice be changed so that masks MUST be worn in the classroom because of the possible contacts between the adults working in there (let us ignore the children for the moment)?

cantkeepawayforever

How many confirmed positive cases of coronavirus have you had amongst staff at your school so far?

@BungleandGeorge

Surely teachers need to wear masks so they don’t infect pupils who then go to another teacher’s class and may well pass it on to that teacher and so on. I don’t quite understand the argument. The evidence shows social distancing isn’t enough in poorly ventilated spaces

But equally, by that argument, all children should wear masks so they don't infect teachers who will go on to teach another class, because SD is not enough in a poorly ventilated space?

Surely the point is that EVERYONE should wear masks whenever they are in an enclosed space with one another?

@Clavinova

ChloeDecker Nowhere does noble say she won’t wear a mask unless pupils do.

She implied it - confirmed by her later post which stated that she wasn't concerned for her own safety.

Nice bit of politician style twisting of what was actually said there. You know you've taken an unsupportable position on this, and having to resort to new lows.

saraclara
IIRC their husband is big and important, very well connected to education in some way and shares enough of his high level knowledge with Clavi that she alludes to in threads despite much of her claims being rather different to the reality of those working in schools.
Other than that her favoured topics are why teachers are wrong, arguing about the reality of teaching and telling teachers that they don't understand their jobs or their contracts. At least 75% of the time threads need to be hijacked by Clavi copying and pasting lengthy extracts from websites to try and argue the opposite of whatever those working in schools say.

Clav is trying to argue that I am following DfE guidance and that this is a bad thing if I am concerned for my personal safety.

And yet still can't bring herself to admit that the DfE guidance is wrong.

@Clavinova

cantkeepawayforever

How many confirmed positive cases of coronavirus have you had amongst staff at your school so far?

In this wave? 4. in the previous wave? Almost certainly another 5.

(Standard sized primary)

None during lockdown opening from 1st June with proper SD and bubbling procedures, despite nearly 50% of the school (allowed years + vulnerable / keyworkers) being in full time for all that half term.