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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

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noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 19:55

What's also interesting is that Clav thinks that I am posting all these threads out of self-interest. That I am personally worried for my safety and lobbying for better protections for myself. Hence the focus on whether I wear a mask or not.

I'm not posting out of pure self-interest. I'm not on any vaccine priority list. I'm posting these threads because I want better safety measures for all in school. I'm horrified by the lack of concern for the safety of teachers. I'm horrified by the lack of concern for the safety of ECV families. It doesn't matter if most teachers/pupils will be fine, if the safety measures are as inadequate as they are, then some will die when they otherwise wouldn't have. Some have died. Some have had life-altering experiences or been very ill. That is the inevitable outcome of this incompetent shower of shit government and those outcomes are on them.

That is why the DfE guidance needs to change, on a national level, because they are the ones in charge. It shouldn't be down to individuals to go against government guidance to be safer.

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Clavinova · 03/12/2020 19:59

Giving teachers permission to wear a mask is pretty pointless unless pupils also wear them, as on balance masks protect others more than the mask wearer.

Unison didn't think it was pointless in August;

"Responding to a joint statement by UK chief medical officers about school reopening, UNISON head of education Jon Richards said"

“This acknowledgement of the transmission risk between staff in schools underlines why it’s vital they should be able to wear face coverings."

www.unison.org.uk/news/2020/08/school-staff-must-allowed-wear-masks-safe-reopening-says-unison/

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 20:01

noblegiraffe
What's also interesting is that Clav thinks that I am posting all these threads out of self-interest. That I am personally worried for my safety and lobbying for better protections for myself. Hence the focus on whether I wear a mask or not.

Several years ago I assumed you were a union rep - but apparently you are not.

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 20:04

saraclara
Your reading comprehension is pretty poor, Clavinova.

My reading comprehension was fine.

BungleandGeorge · 03/12/2020 20:05

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-in-education/face-coverings-in-education

I’m not sure if people are aware that there are new guidelines? I wondered as I keep seeing the old ones quoted

borntobequiet · 03/12/2020 20:07

[quote Clavinova]Giving teachers permission to wear a mask is pretty pointless unless pupils also wear them, as on balance masks protect others more than the mask wearer.

Unison didn't think it was pointless in August;

"Responding to a joint statement by UK chief medical officers about school reopening, UNISON head of education Jon Richards said"

“This acknowledgement of the transmission risk between staff in schools underlines why it’s vital they should be able to wear face coverings."

www.unison.org.uk/news/2020/08/school-staff-must-allowed-wear-masks-safe-reopening-says-unison/[/quote]
You’re still focusing on transmission between staff and completely missing the point that what worries people who are actually in the classroom is transmission from students to staff.

noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 20:07

Several years ago I assumed you were a union rep - but apparently you are not.

I'm sure that was this year! No, not a union rep, I'd be rubbish at it (genuinely).

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noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 20:09

New guidelines Bungle

"On the basis of current evidence, in light of the mitigating measures education settings are taking, and the negative impact on communication, face coverings will not generally be necessary in the classroom even where social distancing is not possible. There is greater use of the system of controls for minimising risk, including through keeping in small and consistent groups or bubbles, and greater scope for physical distancing by staff within classrooms. Face coverings can have a negative impact on learning and teaching and so their use in the classroom should be avoided.

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BungleandGeorge · 03/12/2020 20:09

And guidelines about using the app, nothing saying staff and students shouldn’t have it
www.gov.uk/government/publications/use-of-the-nhs-covid-19-app-in-schools-and-further-education-colleges/use-of-the-nhs-covid-19-app-in-schools-and-further-education-colleges

Walkaround · 03/12/2020 20:10

@BungleandGeorge

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-in-education/face-coverings-in-education

I’m not sure if people are aware that there are new guidelines? I wondered as I keep seeing the old ones quoted

The guidance you link still clearly says masks should not be worn in the classroom.
Walkaround · 03/12/2020 20:10

Here it is: “ Face coverings can have a negative impact on learning and teaching and so their use in the classroom should be avoided.”

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 20:12

noble giraffe
I'm sure that was this year!

Ok - I came to that conclusion several years ago but apparently I was wrong.

noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 20:12

About the app:

"Settings should also discuss with staff their own use of the app, including pausing it if there are periods of time when they will not be near their phone, and appropriate processes to follow should they receive a notification themselves."

What it doesn't say there is that if the notification relates to an interaction within school, the app notification can be overridden by the school's own risk assessment with the blessing of the DfE helpline.

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BungleandGeorge · 03/12/2020 20:14

Tbh it’s quite contradictory as they also say

The World Health Organisation published a statement on 21 August about children and face coverings. They now advise that “children aged 12 and over should wear a mask under the same conditions as adults, in particular when they cannot guarantee at least a 1-metre distance from others and there is widespread transmission in the area.”

BungleandGeorge · 03/12/2020 20:15

And

Schools and colleges will have the discretion to require face coverings in indoor communal areas where social distancing cannot be safely managed if they believe that it is right in their particular circumstances.

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 20:17

Here it is: “ Face coverings can have a negative impact on learning and teaching and so their use in the classroom should be avoided.”

Appears to relate to primary schools only.

WhyNotMe40 · 03/12/2020 20:17

Yes - so permission to wear them in the corridors.
We weren't allowed masks in corridors until the Monday after lockdown started.....

WhyNotMe40 · 03/12/2020 20:18

@Clavinova

Here it is: “ Face coverings can have a negative impact on learning and teaching and so their use in the classroom should be avoided.”

Appears to relate to primary schools only.

Nope. All schools
BungleandGeorge · 03/12/2020 20:18

It’s true it does need to be paused if the phone isn’t on your person, but the notifications shouldn’t be over ridden. So some schools are risk assessing otherwise, that’s terrible

Walkaround · 03/12/2020 20:18

@BungleandGeorge - it’s not remotely contradictory. It says the WHO advise one thing and the DfE another.

noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 20:21

Bungle it's odd isn't it, going from 'WHO says they should be wearing masks' to 'discretion in particular circumstances' to 'use in classrooms should be avoided'.

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Walkaround · 03/12/2020 20:25

I love this bit: “ On the basis of current evidence, in light of the mitigating measures education settings are taking, and the negative impact on communication, face coverings will not generally be necessary in the classroom even where social distancing is not possible.”

noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 20:25

@Clavinova

Here it is: “ Face coverings can have a negative impact on learning and teaching and so their use in the classroom should be avoided.”

Appears to relate to primary schools only.

Not at all. The only bit about primary schools is not having to wear them in corridors. Their use should be avoided in classrooms both primary and secondary.
noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?
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Walkaround · 03/12/2020 20:27

The DfE does not believe face coverings are necessary in classrooms even where social distancing is not possible! Shock

LookingForDeeplyDo · 03/12/2020 20:28

Keep up the good work noble. 💚